Denoiser - tips etc?
jakiblue
Posts: 7,281
ive seen people mention the denoiser in the forums but haven’t really paid attention. Last night I turned it on for the first time. It’s a very ‘smooth’ effect and it sort of makes your render almost finished looking. But I have absolutely no idea how it works or really, what to do with it.
so there are 4 mentions of ‘denoiser’ in the render settings:
Post Denoiser Available:
Ok, turn it on, I guess.
Post Denoiser Enable:
Ah, didn’t I just do that? What is the difference?
Post Denoiser Start Iteration:
Ok, when you want it to kick in, I assume. Now, are there any recommended times there? Start it early? Start it later? What works best?
Post Denoiser Denoiser Alpha:
Uh, what?
So what do they all mean? Is Denoiser best for environmental scenes and not character portraits? When’s the best time to use it? I’m so confused!
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Comments
The denoiser takes the "noise" pixels, examines the pixels around it, and then uses an algorithm/"artificial intelligence" to re-interpret the noise pixels in order to fill the space with actual information.
Character portraits? If you like softer/smoother skin textures (which I do), then this is fine. No problem with denoisers.
If you favor skin textures with a lot of grain (a lot of pits and marks, bumpy and rough), then you probably don't want to use the denoiser on a figure. Denoiser kills grain, and if your skin preference is grainy spotty splotchy skin, then the denoisers will fight against that.
As for the best time to use it? I use the Intel post-render denoiser, so I can use it at any time... and if it makes the picture look better/closer to what I want, then that's the best time to use it.
(Sorry, no recommendations for Daz denoiser.)
Usually, I like to do the oversampling/downscale technique first (at about 70-85% convergence). If that's not enough, then I try denoising.
What is that?
Thanks for the explanations also.
There have been a few threads...
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/316206/denoise-renders-and-save-a-lot-of-time-nvidia-not-reqd/p1
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/334881/use-this-a-i-based-open-source-de-noiser-from-the-comfort-of-daz-studio/p1
It's useful to me. Combine it with oversampling & downscaling, and you can save a LOT of time. It all depends on your image preferences, though. Since I favor softer skin without grainy/scaly features, it's perfect for me.
I've found that the denoiser does not sacrifice any pixel quality and sharpness IF you let the render run for a few thousand iterations total (this is for final renders of course). It will cut down on fireflies if they're a problem in your render. For tests, it's great. You only need to let it run for a couple hundred iterations or less to get a good idea of what you're getting. But for a final render, I still use it, but I let my renders get a lot of iterations. In the thousands.
Laurie
There has been a great "DragNDrop App" for it made by @Taoz : https://taosoft.dk/software/freeware/dnden/
I really like the DragNDrop App, it's really easy to use and crazy fast. I use the NVIDIA Script coupled with the DragNDrop App. However, the Denoiser IN Daz Studio is fantastic too and can really help decrease render times. I usually leave it on the default settings and that seems to work pretty well for most renders, I think. :)
Daz Studio Pro Tips: The post denoise filter in under five minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DkSpJMHkGk
fantastic, thank you! he explained what the "alpha" meant which was confusing me :)
the drag'n'drop - that 'denoises' your renders AFTER it renders? Like, when you're reading to do your postwork?
I use this too it works well very well. After my render is done using studio I use this app before I take my image into final post work.
Indeed. This is one of the reasons I prefer such denoisers, as they are entirely non-destructive. Feel it's taken too much detail out of an area? Layer in the original, which you still have access to.
(The other big thing I prefer about these is that, although it's a pain to get the information out of DS, they can be combined with albedo and normal canvases, which provide the denoiser with the knowledge of whether there *should* be detail in that area, which massively improves the quality of the denoising).
You can also do it DURING.
Just pause a render, locate the Daz3d Temp directory, copy the Temp render image out of there, and denoise that. You can resume the Render if you like after that.
The advantage of the post denoiser is that in DS, the Iray denoiser that works during a render ONLY works if your entire scene fits on your graphics card. If for any reason it drops to CPU, the Iray denoiser during render does not kick in. Also, the in-render denoiser can give a smudgy or "painterly" effect to your render (which sometimes, looks nice - EXCEPT for promos....lol), so even if you CAN get away with just a few hundred samples and the denoiser, it still looks much better if you use the denoiser yet still let it run for a few thousand iterations/samples.
Laurie
Yeah, so what you can do is stop the render early when it's still a little bit noisy and then drop it into the denoiser app. :)
For instance, this UltraScenery render I ran for only 30 seconds. As you can see it has a lot of noise in the grass:
But I popped it into the DragNDrop app for the NVIDIA denoiser and that got rid of most, if not all, of the noise:
Not too bad for 30-second render, imo. :)
I use a version in Blender, and find the denoiser far superior to the one that was available in Iray; not tried Iray's lately though.
I have it set up in compositing; if I don't want full denoising, I can mix some non-denoised.
The Windows DnD version also support the Intel denoiser, and yes, many have said it's better than NVidia's.