Weight Mapping VS JCM's
RAMWolff
Posts: 10,212
Some folks get the hang of it and carry on like it's pouring milk over cereal but then there are folks like myself that just can't get things like "bulge maps" figured out.
Here is the scenario. I'm trying my best to get weight mapping figured out so when I get to Pan I'm not totally tearing out my hair. So I'm working on an older project called Wildfire, a super hero from the Legion of Super Heroes owned by DC Comics. Now things like boots, the trunks are easy for the most part because there are no outrageous wrinkles or anything that's going to make things too hard. Then you get to gloves and the helmet... (the body suit is actually a morph and a 2nd skin, just seemed like the right way to go with that).
Gloves, you have fingers, lots of them. Your thinking put a little red here and things should bend.. OK, so fingers MIGHT not be as bad because MOST fingers that we know of only bend ONE way, right? BUT then you have the
Helmet.... well the head bends back and forth, side to side and twists... Right now I'm doing the bend too and fro. I've got just one X-Rotation map in the neck and just added a "left Bulge Map" because I don't think I'm going to need a right one so far. I figure I can get most of the bend set up in the X-Rotation map and use the "left Bulge map" to get things squared away with any poke throughs I might get either Too or Fro... Nope, not that easy for me so far.
I have the head bend down all the way forward (20%) and things look great so far. Then I bend the head back the full 40% that's allowable and I get poke throughs not only in the Adams Apple area in the front but in the back of the head where the crease is ... completely separates out. I try to work an angle of balance between selecting the head and then the neck and go back and forth and then ... 4 hours later I'm still having the same issue. Y
You wonder why I seem so ADDA with my projects because there just isn't enough information out there or anyone that's WILLING to really sit down with myself and other folks like me and offer solid advice. In the end projects get shelved and the community does without and I feel like a failure.
So is there anyone out there that knows about such a situation and if so how does one resolve this? I do not want to rely completely on smoothing and collision to fix this. In fact I'd prefer not to, this sort of thing eats up resources and not everyone is going to have that kind of horse power to keep that going.
I'm using DAZ Studio only. I know NOTHING of Poser and since I'm in DS I'm using, currently Genesis 1 with the Triax Weight Mapping system.
Thanks so much for any help in getting this figured out, I'd really appreciate it!
Richard
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Comments
Well, for starters, most of us aren't painting from scratch, we're automating with Transfer Utility and then using weight mapping to touch it up. This generates good enough results to show you what the paint on the underlying figure looks like and where bulge maps etc. generally should go. For that reason it's unlikely there will ever be a tutorial containing a phrase like "When bending a face-concealing helmet's neck area forward 20%..."
Trust me hon, I've tried the weight mapping from Genesis first. That was no better. Jan, famous for her free gowns, over on the Hivewire forums, suggested that perhaps I make a fix morph that kicks in when the head is bend backwards. Not a bad idea at all unless there is someone that can offer anything else.
Thanks! :-)
Doing an automatic JCM is not a bad idea, and I can walk you through that if you like. Now that I know how - I shudder to look at how hard to use my old M4 undies are without them! The helmet is much denser than the body, and that can occasionally cause bend irregularities that a morph can fix.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. It's totally time for me to learn that.
As you can see below the fix is done via ZBrush and I have it imported and applied in DAZ Studio but it's not set to "auto follow" Genesis when it's head is tilted back and I REALLY want that to happen!
I turned off the Wildfire head morph I made that includes a ear gone effect so that's why your seeing that in ZBrush. In DS you can see it's applied..
Okay! One hardly ever uses the "ERC Freeze" panel for this now, so it's good to know the new methods.
If you want your fix to be dependant on the bend of the head, note which axis of rotation that is. Right-click on that rotation (bend?) in Parameters and select Edit Mode. A little button appears to the left of the dial.
Select the helmet and start a Property Hierarchy tab (Window-Panes(tabs). You want it hovering free or docked on the other side from Parameters because you need to drag things between them.
Search for the name of the morph by entering it in the top bar of the tab. Giving the morph a name that starts with JCM makes it easier to find here even if it will ultimately be invisible (which is the conventional way to do this).
When you've found it, expand it out. It has the headings Link, Aliases, Sub-Components and Controllers.
Click on Controllers and expand it out.
Click on First Stage (Add/Subtract).
Now go back to Parameters. Click on the P next to the bend dial and drag it over to drop onto First Stage (Add/Subtract). It may take a couple of tries to click just right to drag it; Parameters is fiddly about you clicking that letter P in just the right way.
Now under the First Stage (Add/Subtract) it should say ERC [DeltaAdd] : XRotate (Bend), or whatever rotation you dragged over. Below that, double-click on Attributes.
The Scalar here is what lets you control how much the morph applies as the joint bends. By default it is set to 1. It needs to be at about 0.014 for most joints (I've seen numbers above and below that but hovering around that number). It may need to be negative depending on the bends of the particular joint. You can tell this by looking to see in the viewport if your morph is applying when the head is bent or not; if not, the scalar value needs to be inverted. The thighs, for instance, need the same value of 0.014 roughly but one needs to be positive and the other negative. Again, I wish I'd known this two years ago!
When you've got the JCM working with the bend, set the morph to invisible in Parameters if you like (right-clicking in Edit Mode exposes these options) and then use file--save as--scene assets--morph asset to save it as you would any other morph.
Ta daaaa!
"If you want your fix to be dependant on the bend of the head, note which axis of rotation that is. Right-click on that rotation (bend?) in Parameters and select Edit Mode. A little button appears to the left of the dial."
OK, first question. Am I selecting Genesis or the Helmet to Right-click for Edit Mode?
I have the helmet Fit To Genesis so Genesis is the one that's really controlling how the helmet is bending. But of course you know that but I needed to state it.
Always the helmet, never the figure. In fact, you don't want anything but the helmet in your scene, sorry.
OK, another question. I'm selecting the Helmet as you stated but am I just selecting the upper most or am I selecting the "Head" part of the helmet? Sorry, I have to get this figured out now or I'll never get it! lol
Also: By "Button appears on the left side of the dial" do you mean the P that's surrounded by stationary ants?
Select the head bone so you can get the proper bend dial. All that matters is that you can access the right rotation of the right bone.
Yes, the letter P.
So I should Unfit the helmet from Genesis then? I just noticed you mentioned the Helmet should be the only thing in the scene...
Yes. You never work on JCM with a clothing item conformed.
Select Head bone in Helmet, got it! :-)
Yes. You never work on JCM with a clothing item conformed.
Thanks for clarifying that! :-) Always wondered!
CRAP... it's late. I have to leave for work. Well I know you will be around here and I know your always helpful so if I need you when I attack this when I get home tonight or tomorrow I'll holler. Your the best! XO
Thanks for clarifying that! :-) Always wondered!
Being conformed changes how bending works in an item. This was more the case with .cr2s but it's still somewhat that way with .dufs.
Really slow moving today. My cold had me in bed till 9 AM this morning. Logged onto the computer and then took a nap for another 1/2 hours using the floor pillows by a little seating area next to the window right near the computer. I have everything in the house to help with allergies, NOTHING to help with mucus though. So nose is stopped up but good which makes me feel groggy. So NOW I think I'm good enough to attempt this... I hope! lol
Never Mind..
Gracias
OK.. mostly got it figured out but with the head back at a full 40% the JCM-HeadTiltBack is only going to 56% so I guess I need to fiddle with that a bit more. :-\
Hmm, now it's working. I set it up to 0.020% and then when I started thinking that perhaps at less I tried 0.018, then 0.015 and then back to 0.014 and it was all fine.
If I have the limits for the JCM set to ON it can't go any further than it's allowed anyway so even higher numbers like 0.020% would be OK??
Mm, probably. I mean limits do work, but I'm not sure that wouldn't skew the ratio of morph-on to movement. Experiment and see. ;)
I will and thanks again SO SO much for the help! :-)
Very welcome! :D
OK, I must be going out of my retarded mind.
I was going to create the side to side morphs.
Bend the head to the side, conformed to Genesis.
Fixed as much as I could with the weight mapping brush.
Exported to ZBrush.
Fixed the rest, added in wrinkles for the bend.
Exported to my folder.
Imported into DS, named the morph.
I can't seem to get it to just work. The head to the side bend just goes beyond what it was intended to do. I can't stand this head of mine sometimes LOL
Do I zero out Genesis or leave it with it's head bent when importing the morph. I tried both ways and it's just not working out. Why did it work out with the head all the way back.
I'm just feeling really really stupid right now. OMG! Someone please slap some sense into me!
HELP??
OK.. I guess it pays to rant. Import it via GoZ with the head bend to the side. Create the morph like that. Not sure why I thought I had imported it via the Morph Loader Pro!
Perhaps if there is a way to load it via Morph Loader pro without having to use GoZ I would be interested in that info since sometimes that darned bridge doesn't work as expected!
Man, you were right, this JCM setting up is so damned fidgety! I got one working, another is telling me there is an error! Apparently there is an issue with assigning the Twist to the right side. I've done it right but it's just not taking. I same my work out and reload the program and now one of the ones that was working is not working. Man, talk about some buggy $hit!
Maybe you can shed some light on this hon
As you can see the left is set up and does work correctly. The right is where I'm getting this error message when I try to drag the Twist over to the controller area...
Weird.
same thing with the Side to side except I got both sides loaded with the JCM morphs but only one works! GRRRRRRRRRR
Investigating...
I found between the 4 files that were saved out in the Data folder the two that work have less code lines than their "twin" which have over quadruple the code lines.
JCM-SideBend-Left = NOT Working - 4433 lines
JCM-SideBend-Right = WORKS - 416 lines
JCM-Twist-Right = WORKS - 677 lines
JCM-Twist-Left = NOT Working - 1760 lines
You get the duplicate IDs error when you save a JCM over itself. You have to delete and recreate it each time, from the data folders if necessary; they can't really be overwritten the way DS works right now.
Yea, got that figured out. Lord have mercy. I guess when you get your work flow down it's not so daunting! lol
OK, so I've got all the head movement helpers done for the Genesis BASE. Now for the main Wildfire shape I created I'm running into similar issues even with the JCM's kicked in helping. So how do I remedy that? Do I just start throwing the helper morphs into the Wildfire shape morph the same way to compensate for these new poke throughs? I see folks out there making stuff that looks good on every shape they throw at it including shapes they make themselves including you and Smay! So how is that accomplished?
Gracias
Richard
Did you do a custom FBM for the item? Usually I do that and it's enough.
You may also be having issues with the difference between base resolution of your item and Genesis (if the item is much more or less dense than the figure, sometimes bending is affected). Other than "do it differently next time" or "try an FBM," JCMs for the particular shape are probably the next best option, yes. You'll need to add the shape to the Multiply instead of Add/Subtract if memory serves.
The morph that wasn't working when imported with MLP but ddi work via GoZ - your problem was that you weren't checking Reverse Deformations in MLP, or you had changed the pose between exporting to morph and bringing back via MLP. Reverse deformations is there to strip out any posing or morphing changes to the mesh, leaving only the corrective morph.