Difference between the surfaces from geometry editor and the material index/layers in Surfaces tab
peteanderson1212
Posts: 75
Could someone explain me the differences between how the surfaces group in geometry editor differs from the surfaces/material index in the Surfaces tab?
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They technically refer to the same thing, its just which part of it you're editing that changes.
In the geometry editor you are telling daz which vertices/faces are part of that surface definition
while in the surfaces tab you tell daz what properties that surface has.
Is hiding the surface in the geometry editor or should hiding the surface in geometry editor give the same results to when I use the cutout opacity in the surfaces tab? I mean, if I remove the surface and the subsequent vertices/faces/polygons via geometry editor it gives the same effect to when I would use the cutout opacity. So, shouldn't hiding give the same effect too?
EDIT: I just want to know, is this supposed to happen? And what's the explanation behind it?
B:
Cap - Deleted via geometry editor
Bangs1 & Bangs2 - Hidden via cutout opacity
Front1 & Front2 - Deleted via geometry editor
A:
Cap, Bangs1 & Bangs2 - Hidden via cutout opacity
Front1 & Front2 - Hidden via geometry editor
So, right now technically only the layers/surfaces Back, BackUnder, Side1 and Side2 are/should be visible. Why is A different from B? And what can I do to get A same as B while using the same setup as above for B. That is, I simply want to hide the polygons and with it, the textures that are over it or should be.
If you hide via Cutout Opacity then the geometry is still sent to the render and may still have an effect on the output, depending on other settings. Hiding with the Geometry Editor, or hiding a bone via its parameters, tells DS not to send the geometry to the render engine at all.
If you hide via Cutout Opacity then the geometry is still sent to the render and may still have an effect on the output, depending on other settings. Hiding with the Geometry Editor, or hiding a bone via its parameters, tells DS not to send the geometry to the render engine at all.
Richard, unfortunately as you can see above, I haven't rendered anything yet. And it's still in Texture view only, not even Nvidia view. I hope you have a better answer than that to follow it up with.
The answer applies to an extent, though - Cutout Opacity is not seen as hiding the mesh but chnaging its proeprties (and in fact textrue Shaded gives a very poor preview of overlapping surfaces with less than 100% opacity).
I don't understand what it has to do with anything what I asked above. Sure what you're trying to say might be true but how does it apply to my case. The things hidden by cutout opacity don't matter, say I am not rendering anything and it's hidden from view. What else there is to it? You're paying attention to the wrong details and instead focus on the settings to the Front1 and Front2 and the Back, BackUnder, Side1 and Side2. I thought it should have been clear from what I explained above but seems like my words are lost.
In a nutshell. In those two screenshots above (don't focus on the screenshots but the two objects A and B, which are the same hair) and at that moment, only Back, BackUnder, Side1 and Side2 surfaces are technically visible. Rest is hidden. Front1 and Front2 are hidden in one and deleted in the other, so by theory they should not be visible. And that is true for B (the surfaces are deleted), in which the front portions of the hair, the front side of the head/hair or the top side is invisible in B. While in A that portion is simply hidden via geometry editor. But it's still showing in the portview. That is what I want to ask, why? Please read the things thoroughly before answering. And by your definition, geometry editor should have hidden them easily enough but it hasn't.
EDIT: Shit I just noticed I marked them wrong. I'll edit my first post again.
EDIT: Corrected. B has Front1 and Front2 deleted and hence it only shows the backside of the hair. While A has those two surfaces simply hidden via geometry editor. But they still show up in there.
No point in answering or helping people that didn't want answers or help. The purpose of these forums is not to be attacking and insulting people.
This is an edited reply for somebody who didn't spell my name correctly and likes to write long confusing paragraphs.
Katherine, there's no surface setting that I changed. It's default, out of the box that comes with the hair. Why would I list the things that I changed if I had just made more changes to them. Richard's point is true in cases where it applies. I don't see how it applies to mine when I technically just said that don't focus on the wrong things. However I hid those layers/surfaces those are hidden. Bangs1, Bangs2 and Cap surfaces don't matter. Shall I just delete them and repost the images if it's it's somethinf unclear for some reason to you guys? The visible layers in both of these images are simply the ones I stated. In one of those screenshots you can see I have deleted the Front1 and Front2 entirely. And in the second they are hidden. The remaining 4 layers are what should be visible in both A and B. 4 layers (Back, BackUnder, Side1 and Side2 respectively)
Please try to visualise the situation better and stop assuming things.
OK, so you are hiding a surface group eith by seelcting it with the Geometry Editor and hiding/deleting it or by turning its visibility button off in the Surfaces group in Tool Settings? What happens if you switch to a different tool?
The two should be the same, since you are editing the unerlying asset, but there seems to be a failure to update the unselected instance when using the visibility toggles in Tool Settings. If you hide using the right-click menu then both copies of the hair reflect the result, if you hide using Tool Settings then only the selected instance updates. If you then hide a group using the right-click menu then both instances update to match the current state. I think you have found a bug, unless I misunderstand how things should work.
There's no bug since that's not what is happening. And no, both copies aren't really reflecting the same details. Using the right click menu and hiding or the visibility toggle has the same effect. Nothing different. The difference is because I deleted those surfaces entirely, from the geometry editor in one. While in the other, I have only hidden them via the toggles/right click menu. That's the difference.
From what I have seen, the effects are reflected only for hidden polygons and not the deleted ones. So, if they are deleted in one that won't be the case in the other.
If they are the same hair in the same scene then they should be identical as far as geometry edits go - are they, or are you compositing two separate sessions in your images?
Please just go through step-by-step. In soem posts you say you are not adjusting the surfaces, in others you say "hidden via Cutout Oapcity"
Damn... Step by Step right
1 - Loaded the Assets twice say instance A and instance B (no, they are not instances but actual nodes)
2 - Hid Cap, Bangs1 & Bangs2 via cutout opacity in both of them. (Since I hid them, please don't mention these layers again, I'd be really disappointed if you did that now)
3 - Remaining visible surfaces are Back, BackUnder, Front1, Front2, Side1, Side2
4 - Hid Front1 & Front2 via geometry editor (via the visibility toggle) in A - resulting figure is A
5 - Deleted the Front1 & Front2 surfaces via geometry editor in B - resulting figure is B
Why I deleted, was to show what happens when those layers are not present at all. aka when they should not be visible via the geometry editor. But that isn't the case when I simply hide Front1 & Front2 via the visibility toggle in tool settings for geometry editor. Yes if I did all that work from the right click menu while I am using geometry editor the result is the same, so please don't mention that again too. If it's still unclear, then I am really unsure what to think about the moderators/users here.
Anyways, this issue was only persistent on my desktop and not on my a different laptop. Fortunately, it works as intended on my laptop. But on my desktop, it causes that weird glitch where hiding via visibility toggle (via geometry editor) doesn't hide it really. I saw that the entire asset has too many unused vertices and once I deleted them it worked fine on my desktop. But I was unable to save it as a wearable preset anymore. The unused vertices were still there on my laptop, about 23k but even without deleting them it was working fine on the laptop. I don't want to dive too deep into Daz where I have to uninstall it from my system. Is there anything I can do to fix it on my desktop? Already tried uninstalling and reinstalling the asset.
EDIT: I don't want to go through the trouble of uninstalling Daz, if there's no other way then at least there must be something I could do to use the hair as a wearable preset after I have deleted all the unused vertices.
Cutout Opacity does not hide the surface; it simply does as the name implies, adjust the opacity. Other settings for that surface may still cause visual effects in the render.
I see that, using a different item. Deletion, like hiding, should propagate across to all instances of the asset loaded but - as with the issue setting visibility via the Tool Settings pane that I found above - that doesn't seem to be the case with deletion. I don't believe this is the intended behaviour.
Okay first off, I really don't think that the deleting polygons should be something that should propogate to all the other loaded assets. That would be absurd, they are nodes not instances. Yes, I have noticed using the visibility toggle or maybe also while using the right click menu, if you hide some polygons that effect is propogated to other assets too. But deleting would be over the cause.
So, yes, that is fine and correct, unless that is what you think shouldn't be the intended behaviour. And that wasn't even the point of it, I am guessing people here just miss out on everything at all. This is not about the propogating effects of hiding the polygons in different assets or whatnot. I simply said, and what the screenshots shows above, the A and B instances (and I repeat, they are nodes, not actual Daz instances, I am not sure what else to refer them as with, ahh, nodes). A and B are two different nodes. I am not looking for a propogating effect where I do something to A and it also happens to B.
If you still are unable to get it, I guess I can imagine the kind of competency people have here in understanding the littelest of the things, for real. I am at my wits end trying to explain it as hard as I can. And Richard, you still manage to understand something else entirely. I said, when I simply hide the surfaces using the toggle (or the right click menu) while using the geometry tool and the tool settings, it is not working as it should be. It is supposed to hide it but it's not. You can see that in A.
While in B, the B is there for you to show you that what happens when that surface should be hidden. Now since it's just not getting hidden, I DELETED it. Get it. Why I had to delete the polygon or the surface in the B was just to show you what should happen in A when I simply hide it, but it's not working. What's not working, is, hiding the polygons via the visibility toggle. The layers or surfaces or whatever it is you like to call it, is being glitched out somehow and not hiding properly. And no, the deleted surfaces/polygons effect should not propogate to other nodes, as that would make it absurd and the reason to use geometry editor redundant. I am not looking to see the layers getting deleted in A too.... I do not in fact even want to delete those layers. I am simply showing you the effect it should be showing while that layer should be hidden by deleting it. But I DO NOT want to delete it or anything.
Voila,,, this seems to be something happening in 4.12.1.118 or whatever the current public build is. Not the beta one. Just installed back the 4.11.0.383, still had the files and it's working fine as frucks... I am afraid I have lost the energy to even try and submit a bug report. Please, someone if they managed to crack what I was trying to do here, please submit it as a bug report...Daz team is so crafty they even delete the DIM package for the previous versions of Daz with the new one instantly, like it's some MMO game ... Why am I not so surprised.
OK, so if your complaint is that a single item is not behaving as it should please concentrate on that, don't muddy the waters with a second object. I don't have that particular model, if you want others to follow along (and it isn't specific to the model) then use soemthing generally avaialble, such as a Genesis figure or part of the Basic Wear. That said, in my tests I have not seen any failure to hide selected groups when told to do so.
No.