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Thanks again, everyone, for your input. My responses here might be a bit delayed or muddled. I was just informed that my Uncle, my Father's Twin brother died a couple days ago.
I sure did! I checked them about a billion times over that whole process lol.
@Ron Knights, I'm very sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss.
Condolences for your loss, Ron! Wishing the best to you and your family at this difficult time.
Thanks for your condolences, everyone. I'll be ok.... yes I do miss him already. But life moves on!
Got to love these comprehensive manuals.
"Connect the 4 pin EZ_PLUG power plugs to ensure sufficient power when you install multiple graphics cards"
I cannot imagine what they expect anyone to be doing on this thing where it would be drawing the kind of power that would need this kind of power delivery. 2 8 pins and a 6 pin just for the CPU? 288W + 288W + 216W = 792. That's LN2 stuff.
I do not know what was going on in your build but a 2000W supply should have not given you all that trouble and you should not have needed all that current delivery to the CPU. Something was fouled up. Likely the motherboard or BIOS was screwed up.
I value any and all advice you can offer me. Like Ron, I have a case in mind for the system I am slowly assembling parts for currently. I have not recommended it to anyone else because I havent actually used it first hand. However all reviews are fantastic. The case I'm considering is here:
https://www.thermaltakeusa.com/view-71-tempered-glass-argb-edition.html
It has quite good reviews for an aquarium style case because the side panels are pretty far away, especially when water cooled, seems ideal and not excessively large such as the View91. Another forum member here at Daz3d recommened the View 71 to me in another thread after I saw in their description that they are currently using it and asked how they liked it. I need to find the thread and the individual who's insights were very helpful in cementing my desicion. This case might be a worthy consideration for Ron as well if he hasn't already decided on a final casing.
4 double width GPUs is the plan indeed. The motherboard I'll be using is by Supermicro found here:
https://www.supero.com/en/product-series/55-c9z490-pgw.html
Rashad Carter, thanks for the link. Please feel free to stay in this discussion. I have a lot to learn.
I'm no fan of glass front cases and certainly not sure about the whole z490/i10xxx series so if you have your heart set on that I'n ot the best person to ask about that end.
As to cases, I'd check if that class front can come off.That would give you a lot more air right off the bat. If the goal is a watercooled system from the start and $200 is in budget I'd avoid the View 71 and look at the Lian Li o11 XL. It is meant for watercooling.
https://www.lian-li.com/pc-o11d-rog/
I've seen several showpieces using it and seen a bunch of great reviews.
While it is glass front the air intake is on the side so that isn't an issue.
I use a Thermaltake (forget which one), but it allows the motherboard to lie flat; this is important if you're having expensive and heavy cards in it as the pressure over time can warp and damage motherboards; sure they are designed not to (or to compensate for it), but avoiding the issue is better imo.
Plus as the case turns into a Test Bench Case, making assemply and tinkering really simple.
Ron,
If I can offer a piece of advice on temperatures, it would be to figure out what your base temp is - ie. the average summer/winter temp in the room you work in. I'm constantly amazed by the comments I see on cooling without anyone ever asking if the user lives in Alaska or Brazil. I live in the Alps where high summer (indoors) temp rarely goes above 23-25C. Right now, with all doors and windows open, it's 20C (23C outside), and of course in winter.... even with a wood fire going full blast,18C is about the max.
I went for a Fractal Design Define R6 mainly for its flexibilty. I modded it into an open plan version with an RTX2060 (vertically mounted), Intel i7 with a Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi cooler, and 5 SSDs. A total of 7 fans, completely silent, and the GPU rarely goes above 60C. So the point I'm making is that, yes temperature is important, but there are other considerations.
Of course, if you're in Florida of Louisiana, ignore all the above. LOL.
I was also looking for a new motherboard for CPU upgrade, and compared to my old X99, the Z490 looked somewhat lacking... Checking the situation again later this year, but so far the GPU upgrade got rid of the worst - If I were getting a new one now, it would be with a X299 chipset.
Kenshaw,
As always, your feedback is very much appreciated! To be completely honest, I'm not fully sold on the z490 10xxx series either, I just feel in various ways I don't have much choice. I am in no way an expert on custom computer building, so my logic could be seriously flawed and I'm almost hoping to learn that my logic is indeed flawed, hopefully you can help to set me straight.
My intent is 4 Nvidia GPUs. It seems odd to me to use an AMD CPU if I am not going to use AMD GPUs along with it. Seems an AMD CPU should compliment AMD GPUs in some special way likely in the way the drivers are written, that wouldnt be available if the companies are mixed and matched. I know I probably sound like a hospital escapee right now, and to be honest again I'm expressing publicly my vulnerability in this regard This likely flawed logic of mine is in for some real testing as soon Intel will offer its own GPU's along with CPUs. All we need is for Nvidia to start making their own CPUs.... I digress...
My main reason for seeking the Intel 10xxx series Intel over the amazing looking AMD Ryzen chips is the much higher clock speeds per core on the Intel chips, because one of my favorite rendering programs Bryce is still 32 bit and can only use up to 8 CPU cores and hyperthreading isnt helpful for raytracing calculations, they need to be real cores. So I need the highest clock speeds possible on those 8 threads and for that Intel still takes the cake by a considerable margin. I dont know of any Ryzen chips that run at over 5.3ghz currently, not even on a single core. Other applications like Carrara native renderer can use many more than 8 cores during rendering so the lower clock speeds are balanced easily by the higher number of processing cores, but it should be noted that when I am working in Carrara I bypass the native render engine in favor of Octane anyhow, and this is where the exclusive reliance on Cuda cores and Nvidia GPU cards comes into view. Same with DazStudio, I never use 3D Lite I only use Iray. Nividia GPU's force me toward Intel CPU's
Even aside from rendering, there are still many applications that are only multithreaded at rendering time. All other acitivies such as scene navigations, opening/close/save and most other user functions are still ported through a single processing core. So for me the higher clock speeds offered on the Intel 10x seem like a good idea. Being a complete non-expert, I could be drinking the kool-aid. Help me Please!
I think the reason it isnt discussed often is the unspoken assumption that most rooms where we computer geeks inhabit for long periods of time will be specially idealized, likely air-conditioned, such that the ambient temperature for most anyone in the world regardless of season, altitude, or latitude will be the same, roughly 72F / 22C since we humans usually feel comfortable in that range. That said, you're absolutely correct, we shouldn't assume at all!
Yes, I've been looking recently at the X299 as well! So is the X299 better than the i9 10-900K or X? Do they cover the same ground? I'd love to know more. Thanks for any advice you can offer.
The X299 uses LGA2066 Socket and compatible processors are named X or XE, they are meant for higher end systems than ones using LGA1200 socket.
Comparing the specs of X299 against Z490, the X299 gives you much more. If Intel didn't have problems with their 10nm processors, the X299 would have been replaced with something newer already, but the maturity of the chipset gives also the user the advantage on not being forced to be a beta tester
The 10 core i9 with LGA2066 socket is called i9-10900X
Around the turn of the century, I didn't need any other heating but my computer at outside temperatures above 5C/41F - The 10 Seagate 7200rpm HD's were producing all the heat I needed
The financially comfortable people in Florida, I believe, have the coldest rooms in the country. Frost forms on the windows.
But even if one lives in a hovel and can afford an air-conditioner, a way will be found to create at least one survivable room.
Being outside isn't bad because real Floridians learn to dress (undress) accordingly, showers are a blessing, and one's body eventually accomodates the humidity. But there is nothing more wonderful than coming into a refrigerated room after 20 minutes in the sun. Which is, incidentally, about the maximum time that visitors to Florida amusement parks (Disney World, Universal Studios, SeaWorld, etc.) tolerate before ducking into a souvenier shop or ride, or at least find themselves in a shaded area of the ride's entrance queue.
The case I recently bought for my new build (3900X) was a Be Quiet! 801. Stacks of room and plenty of removable drive bays plus a couple more hidden down where the power unit is. The only issue with it is air flow. It'll perhaps run a couple of C hotter than other cases. The idea is that it's quiet though (hence the name) and if you're not overclocking the temperatures are fine.
Maclean, old buddy! How are you these days?! I can see you in the Alps, sitting near the wood fire! I now live in Minnesota, which has roughly the same weather we had in Maine. I'm on the 3rd floor of an apartment building. I usually have the heat turned off in the winter because it gets up to 80 F! The heat just accumulates here or something.
For the summer I have a large wall-mounted A/C unit which is right above my big computer table/desk. I can feel a lot of heat coming from the 45" TV that I use for a computer monitor, etc.
Glass computer cases look nice. But I am concerned about heat. I may not have any money to buy or build the new computer till the end of September. I'm waiting to see if we'll get the next stimulus check.
Heavy CPU coolers (some weigh over 1 kilo) are worse IMO as they are fastened to the mainboard only. I tie them up to the top of the case with some metal wire if they are big and heavy.
I'm going to try to answer a lot of things in one go.
CPU clock speed is not really directly comparable between AMD and Intel. It is better to compare benchmarks instead. As of right now, Intel holds a very slight edge in some single core benchmarks. In pretty much all multi core benchmarks Ryzen CPU's at the same price point are far ahead. So if what you do is mostly single threaded, and a lot of older applications are, then Intel does make sense. However Ryzen 4000 will come out very soon and...
There is nothing special about AMD CPU's and AMD GPU's. My system is a Ryzen R7 2700 with a 1080 ti and a 2070. It works great. I've never had any issue with the Nvidia drivers.
X299 is what is known as HEDT, High End Desk Top (basically consumer workstation). This is the same market niche as Threadripper, and threadripper pretty much owns it). I had assumed you had looked at it already since this is where people looking at having 4 GPU's usually go first. These platforms have lots of PCIE lanes. the i9 has 48, IIRC, while the newest threadrippers have 88. Of course these chips do run slower than their desktop equivalents so if you do want the fastest possible chips these won't be for you. The major downside is the cost of the CPU's and motherboards. But for people buying 4 GPU's that might not be that big a deal.
I will definitely get the AMD CPU & the nVidia GPU.
My current system has done me well for the past 10+ years. Its a dual quad core Xeon system. Going full Xeon 10 years ago was me going for the higher end specs in hopes that I would get a lot of life out of the unit, which I have. But its surely getting long in the tooth and support for the CPUs has long since stopped. I told myself that on the next build I would look only 5 years into the future instead of 10 since things are changing sio quickly, and to consider the consumer level tech as viable so I can replace parts more cheaply. There is much less information about the X299, very little discussion online, likely because as you said, Threadripper literally owns that niche so why would anyone purchase Intel? I dont know of any way to get these benchmarks on applications that are relevant to me, so I am running blind. Even more than usual, I must thank you greatly for this informational assist! Whenever spending thousands of dollars on toys its good to know what you are buying!
Now after reading Kenshaw's post I feel I need to wait for the Ryzen 4000, which if it can beat Intels best single core offerings, I will surely go the Ryzen CPU with Nvidia GPUs route. Guess there's more "wait and see" in my future.
A couple of questions from me that I have not managed to clarify in my google searches:
1) I have a 5 year old Intel i7 6700 on an Asus Z170-E (LGA1151) motherboard. Would an i9 work with that MB? My searches have returned confusing results - some say yes, some say no. If not, a Ryzen with a new MB might be the better route but I suspect I will need to buy Windows 10 again because I believe my version is locked to the MB.
2) Given that my budget is limited, would I be better advised to stick with the i7 CPU and spend as much as I can afford on a new GPU or split the budget between CPU and GPU?
Just a note on (2) ... I mainly use my PC for DAZ Studio but I have an Oculus Rift S and the VR applications seem to be more CPU intensive. Also some gaming terms come into consideration with VR - I keep seeing that physics are calculated on the CPU, not the GPU.
1) No. By and large Intel restricts each series of motherboard to the same series of CPU's and the 6700 is the top of that line of CPU's.
2) Buy the best GPU you can afford. This assumes your power supply can handle the load. If the CPU can currently handle the Rift there is no reason to think it won't continue to do so. But a 6700 should be fine for a Rift.