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Extremely Long Render Time for Hair

phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9
in New Users

Hello there! I am very new to Daz and do very simple, average-quality renders. I used to be able to render an image in a fairly quick 7 minute time.

But at one point, it began to take a VERY long time to render the Matthew hair for Genesis 8 male that I purchased. Before (when I did it last week) it would render quickly, but now it slows down the whole process. I deleted the hair and rendered the same scene, and it took five minutes, so the problem is definitely the hair. 

When I render WITH the Matthew hair, it takes 20 minutes JUST to start rendering the first couple of squares of the image. Then, it takes over 2 hours JUST to get the image of the hair alone fully rendered. This is still the case even when I turn the quality way down (with the shading rate slider). 

Again, this was never a problem a week ago

Any advice or suggestions on how I can get the hair to not take over a couple of hours to render? Thank you!

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,785

    This https://www.daz3d.com/mathew-hair-for-genesis-3-male-s-and-genesis-2-male-s ? It's faily high-polygon (187,000) but it doesn't take long to transfer and, in isolation, it seems to be taking a bit over a minute to render using my 2080Ti, about four with the 1660 Super - what are your hardware specs?

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306

    There's not a lot of information there.  It's possible that it's pushing your scene over the edge of what you can fit on your video card and falling back to CPU rendering.   Have you tried a simple character with the hair and nothing else?

    Did you upgrade Windows in the meantime?  That may have scrambled your video card driver.  I just tried a quick render on a G3M with some clothes and it went very quickly for me, as well.  

  • Seven193Seven193 Posts: 1,080

    Not all computers have nVidia graphics cards installed.  No nVidia card, no GPU rendering.

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,306
    Dave230 said:

    Not all computers have nVidia graphics cards installed.  No nVidia card, no GPU rendering.

    You don't see a lot of 7-minute renders on CPU.

  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,725

    they might be using 3DL, because "Shading Rate" and squares when rendering is not an iray thing.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    zombietaggerung said:

    they might be using 3DL, because "Shading Rate" and squares when rendering is not an iray thing.

    Exactly:)

    When I render WITH the Matthew hair, it takes 20 minutes JUST to start rendering the first couple of squares of the image. Then, it takes over 2 hours JUST to get the image of the hair alone fully rendered. This is still the case even when I turn the quality way down (with the shading rate slider). 

    Lowering the shadow rate will increase the level of detail/sharpness of the shading and cause longer rendertimes. 0.5 will work with most scenarios, 0.1 is probably overkill.

    We need more info about rendersettings and LIGHTING:)

  • phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9
    Richard Haseltine said:

    This https://www.daz3d.com/mathew-hair-for-genesis-3-male-s-and-genesis-2-male-s ? It's faily high-polygon (187,000) but it doesn't take long to transfer and, in isolation, it seems to be taking a bit over a minute to render using my 2080Ti, about four with the 1660 Super - what are your hardware specs?

    It is actually https://www.daz3d.com/matthew-hair-for-genesis-8-male

  • phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9
    Richard Haseltine said:

    This https://www.daz3d.com/mathew-hair-for-genesis-3-male-s-and-genesis-2-male-s ? It's faily high-polygon (187,000) but it doesn't take long to transfer and, in isolation, it seems to be taking a bit over a minute to render using my 2080Ti, about four with the 1660 Super - what are your hardware specs?

    It is actually https://www.daz3d.com/matthew-hair-for-genesis-8-male

    I don't have an amazing computer by any means. Its processor is an i3-5010U CPU @ 2.10 GHz.

     

  • phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9
    Sevrin said:

    There's not a lot of information there.  It's possible that it's pushing your scene over the edge of what you can fit on your video card and falling back to CPU rendering.   Have you tried a simple character with the hair and nothing else?

    Did you upgrade Windows in the meantime?  That may have scrambled your video card driver.  I just tried a quick render on a G3M with some clothes and it went very quickly for me, as well.  

    I know I am probably not giving all the best info, I am still learning. Sorry about that!

    Yes, I tried with just a simple figure and no background. I tried with and without the hair. The result was the same as I mentioned: with a figure and nothing else in the scene(without hair) it took a couple minutes. WITH hair it took hours and hours.

    An update I did (a restart and an update with my antivirus software MAY have influenced this, but it was not a full and complete upgrade with Windows

     

  • phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9
    Sven Dullah said:
    zombietaggerung said:

    they might be using 3DL, because "Shading Rate" and squares when rendering is not an iray thing.

    Exactly:)

    When I render WITH the Matthew hair, it takes 20 minutes JUST to start rendering the first couple of squares of the image. Then, it takes over 2 hours JUST to get the image of the hair alone fully rendered. This is still the case even when I turn the quality way down (with the shading rate slider). 

    Lowering the shadow rate will increase the level of detail/sharpness of the shading and cause longer rendertimes. 0.5 will work with most scenarios, 0.1 is probably overkill.

    We need more info about rendersettings and LIGHTING:)

    And I AM using 3Delight, btw. I was testing up and down on the shading because I know that that makes the quality lower (and therefore a quicker render time) but even at a high shading rate, the render time on the hair alone did not speed up AT ALL.

    I am using very simple distant light lighting. Nothing fancy, just four low-lit distance lights on default settings.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    phantomason said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    zombietaggerung said:

    they might be using 3DL, because "Shading Rate" and squares when rendering is not an iray thing.

    Exactly:)

    When I render WITH the Matthew hair, it takes 20 minutes JUST to start rendering the first couple of squares of the image. Then, it takes over 2 hours JUST to get the image of the hair alone fully rendered. This is still the case even when I turn the quality way down (with the shading rate slider). 

    Lowering the shadow rate will increase the level of detail/sharpness of the shading and cause longer rendertimes. 0.5 will work with most scenarios, 0.1 is probably overkill.

    We need more info about rendersettings and LIGHTING:)

    And I AM using 3Delight, btw. I was testing up and down on the shading because I know that that makes the quality lower (and therefore a quicker render time) but even at a high shading rate, the render time on the hair alone did not speed up AT ALL.

    Right...3Delight always uses your CPU, so your GPU specs should not have an impact on the render process at all AFAIK. Three things I can think of that would matter, render settings, lighting and surface settings for the hair.

    I am using very simple distant light lighting. Nothing fancy, just four low-lit distance lights on default settings.

    The default settings are "shadows off", did you enable raytraced shadows? If so, try lowering the shadow samples in render settings? A thought...did you unintentionally enable motion blur in rendersettings/advanced? Did you change any other rendersettings like pixel samples? Did you try progressive rendering? It should be quite a lot faster at the expense of render quality.

    You say you use only the four distant lights, just to be sure...are you using GI/ambient light like AoA ambient or UberEnvironment 2? If so, you can turn off occlusion and raytracing for the hair surfaces if they use the OmUberSurface shader. You can check the name of the shader, with the hair selected go to the surface pane, look in the upper left corner for the name of the shader. Other things related to the surfaces; Normal maps and displacement maps will slow down the render process a bit. Also check if SS is enabled, that would slow things down considerably. Raytraced reflection could also be the culprit. Finally, base level resolution will be faster than SubD.

    I don't own that hair but checked the product info. I suspect the 8k opacity map(s) is the main culprit. Maybe try importing them into an image editor and scale them down to 4k? Also, if you render with gamma correction on and gamma 2.20 (which is the correct way), check the gamma setting for the opacitymaps and make sure they are set to 1. (In the opacity slot, open the image editor, set gamma to 1).

     

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,760

    I do think that particular G8M hair loads with default  iray material.  Did you apply the 3DL materials after loading the hair?

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,336

    If not rendering in Iray, yes definitely check that the mats are suitable for 3D., and if you don't really need them, select the hair - over on the Parameters tab find and turn off 'shadows' ... that's the big time consumer.

  • phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9

    Alright. Thank you for all the help, but when I say I am average and new, I mean VERY VERY new. So, the only thing I have been able to locate is the cast shadows On/Off option under parameters. I turned that off. But the result is still the same. Still very long time just to render the hair.

     Im sorry, its embarassing but everything said here has gone WAY over my head. 

    Sven Dullah said:
    phantomason said:
    Sven Dullah said:

     

    You say you use only the four distant lights, just to be sure...are you using GI/ambient light like AoA ambient or UberEnvironment 2? If so, you can turn off occlusion and raytracing for the hair surfaces if they use the OmUberSurface shader. You can check the name of the shader, with the hair selected go to the surface pane, look in the upper left corner for the name of the shader. Other things related to the surfaces; Normal maps and displacement maps will slow down the render process a bit. Also check if SS is enabled, that would slow things down considerably. Raytraced reflection could also be the culprit. Finally, base level resolution will be faster than SubD.

    I don't own that hair but checked the product info. I suspect the 8k opacity map(s) is the main culprit. Maybe try importing them into an image editor and scale them down to 4k? Also, if you render with gamma correction on and gamma 2.20 (which is the correct way), check the gamma setting for the opacitymaps and make sure they are set to 1. (In the opacity slot, open the image editor, set gamma to 1).

     

    Where do I alter the raytracing? Is that in Parameters, render settings, or surfaces?

    I did not mess with ANY settings whatsoever once I loaded the hair and figure onto the screen. I did not touch GI/ambient light , occlusion, enable motion blur or anything. I dont know where to find any of that anyway, so if I could get some help locating these things that it is recommended I turn off or turn down, I would greatly appreciate it.

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,336

    On the scene tab select any one of the lights you've made, then over on the Parameters Tab you'll find the various choices such as to cast shadows, which type of shadow, colour of shadow, etc.

    You mentioned that this time issue was not a problem last week. Is it with the same hair? As in last week it rendered fast and now it's rendering slow?

     

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    phantomason said:

    Alright. Thank you for all the help, but when I say I am average and new, I mean VERY VERY new. So, the only thing I have been able to locate is the cast shadows On/Off option under parameters. I turned that off. But the result is still the same. Still very long time just to render the hair.

     Im sorry, its embarassing but everything said here has gone WAY over my head. 

    Sven Dullah said:
    phantomason said:
    Sven Dullah said:

     

    You say you use only the four distant lights, just to be sure...are you using GI/ambient light like AoA ambient or UberEnvironment 2? If so, you can turn off occlusion and raytracing for the hair surfaces if they use the OmUberSurface shader. You can check the name of the shader, with the hair selected go to the surface pane, look in the upper left corner for the name of the shader. Other things related to the surfaces; Normal maps and displacement maps will slow down the render process a bit. Also check if SS is enabled, that would slow things down considerably. Raytraced reflection could also be the culprit. Finally, base level resolution will be faster than SubD.

    I don't own that hair but checked the product info. I suspect the 8k opacity map(s) is the main culprit. Maybe try importing them into an image editor and scale them down to 4k? Also, if you render with gamma correction on and gamma 2.20 (which is the correct way), check the gamma setting for the opacitymaps and make sure they are set to 1. (In the opacity slot, open the image editor, set gamma to 1).

     

    Where do I alter the raytracing? Is that in Parameters, render settings, or surfaces?

    I did not mess with ANY settings whatsoever once I loaded the hair and figure onto the screen. I did not touch GI/ambient light , occlusion, enable motion blur or anything. I dont know where to find any of that anyway, so if I could get some help locating these things that it is recommended I turn off or turn down, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Ok, sorry for causing confusion here:) As suggested by others, let's start with the very basics: Did you apply the 3DL materials preset to the hair? If the icon says 3Delight or RSL, you're on the right track. If it says MDL, don't apply it it's for the IRay render engine.

  • phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9
    Catherine3678ab said:

    On the scene tab select any one of the lights you've made, then over on the Parameters Tab you'll find the various choices such as to cast shadows, which type of shadow, colour of shadow, etc.

    You mentioned that this time issue was not a problem last week. Is it with the same hair? As in last week it rendered fast and now it's rendering slow?

     

    That is right.

  • phantomasonphantomason Posts: 9
    Sven Dullah said:
    phantomason said:

    Alright. Thank you for all the help, but when I say I am average and new, I mean VERY VERY new. So, the only thing I have been able to locate is the cast shadows On/Off option under parameters. I turned that off. But the result is still the same. Still very long time just to render the hair.

     Im sorry, its embarassing but everything said here has gone WAY over my head. 

    Sven Dullah said:
    phantomason said:
    Sven Dullah said:

     

    You say you use only the four distant lights, just to be sure...are you using GI/ambient light like AoA ambient or UberEnvironment 2? If so, you can turn off occlusion and raytracing for the hair surfaces if they use the OmUberSurface shader. You can check the name of the shader, with the hair selected go to the surface pane, look in the upper left corner for the name of the shader. Other things related to the surfaces; Normal maps and displacement maps will slow down the render process a bit. Also check if SS is enabled, that would slow things down considerably. Raytraced reflection could also be the culprit. Finally, base level resolution will be faster than SubD.

    I don't own that hair but checked the product info. I suspect the 8k opacity map(s) is the main culprit. Maybe try importing them into an image editor and scale them down to 4k? Also, if you render with gamma correction on and gamma 2.20 (which is the correct way), check the gamma setting for the opacitymaps and make sure they are set to 1. (In the opacity slot, open the image editor, set gamma to 1).

     

    Where do I alter the raytracing? Is that in Parameters, render settings, or surfaces?

    I did not mess with ANY settings whatsoever once I loaded the hair and figure onto the screen. I did not touch GI/ambient light , occlusion, enable motion blur or anything. I dont know where to find any of that anyway, so if I could get some help locating these things that it is recommended I turn off or turn down, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Ok, sorry for causing confusion here:) As suggested by others, let's start with the very basics: Did you apply the 3DL materials preset to the hair? If the icon says 3Delight or RSL, you're on the right track. If it says MDL, don't apply it it's for the IRay render engine.

    Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, I have still not found the solution.

    I tried rendering after turning the shadow intensity all the way down on all 4 distance lights I made. I tried rendering after pushing Off on the cast shadows button for both the figure and the hair. All of this brought the same result of there being hours of rendering just for the hair.

    The hair itself in the Smart Content tab does not have  an MDL, 3DL, or RSL spelled out on it. I did not select any material/ color to apply to the hair. I applied an RSL material, and it is still doing the same thing.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited August 2020
    phantomason said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    phantomason said:

    Alright. Thank you for all the help, but when I say I am average and new, I mean VERY VERY new. So, the only thing I have been able to locate is the cast shadows On/Off option under parameters. I turned that off. But the result is still the same. Still very long time just to render the hair.

     Im sorry, its embarassing but everything said here has gone WAY over my head. 

    Sven Dullah said:
    phantomason said:
    Sven Dullah said:

     

    You say you use only the four distant lights, just to be sure...are you using GI/ambient light like AoA ambient or UberEnvironment 2? If so, you can turn off occlusion and raytracing for the hair surfaces if they use the OmUberSurface shader. You can check the name of the shader, with the hair selected go to the surface pane, look in the upper left corner for the name of the shader. Other things related to the surfaces; Normal maps and displacement maps will slow down the render process a bit. Also check if SS is enabled, that would slow things down considerably. Raytraced reflection could also be the culprit. Finally, base level resolution will be faster than SubD.

    I don't own that hair but checked the product info. I suspect the 8k opacity map(s) is the main culprit. Maybe try importing them into an image editor and scale them down to 4k? Also, if you render with gamma correction on and gamma 2.20 (which is the correct way), check the gamma setting for the opacitymaps and make sure they are set to 1. (In the opacity slot, open the image editor, set gamma to 1).

     

    Where do I alter the raytracing? Is that in Parameters, render settings, or surfaces?

    I did not mess with ANY settings whatsoever once I loaded the hair and figure onto the screen. I did not touch GI/ambient light , occlusion, enable motion blur or anything. I dont know where to find any of that anyway, so if I could get some help locating these things that it is recommended I turn off or turn down, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Ok, sorry for causing confusion here:) As suggested by others, let's start with the very basics: Did you apply the 3DL materials preset to the hair? If the icon says 3Delight or RSL, you're on the right track. If it says MDL, don't apply it it's for the IRay render engine.

    Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, I have still not found the solution.

    I tried rendering after turning the shadow intensity all the way down on all 4 distance lights I made. I tried rendering after pushing Off on the cast shadows button for both the figure and the hair. All of this brought the same result of there being hours of rendering just for the hair.

    The hair itself in the Smart Content tab does not have  an MDL, 3DL, or RSL spelled out on it. I did not select any material/ color to apply to the hair. I applied an RSL material, and it is still doing the same thing.

    Hi, not sure I understand? Did you or did you not apply the 3Delight materials preset to the hair? Here is what I suggest:

    -Create a new scene

    -load G8M

    -with the figure selected, apply a 3DL materials preset to him

    -load the hair

    -with the hair selected, apply a 3DL materials preset to it *

    -go to the rendersettings pane/editor, press the "defaults" button to reset the rendersettings

    -render

    If it still seems to render very slow, do this:

    -with the hair selected, go to the surface pane

    -select all surfaces

    -locate the opacity channel (opacity strength or opacity color)

    -click on the little square where you see the opacity maps, select "none" to remove the opacity maps

    -render

    The hair won't look good without those maps but if it renders fast without them atleast we know where the culprit is.

    You say you did not change anything, it just suddenly started rendering slow. It's possible you had loaded a scene, set or props at some point, that also loaded a rendersetting without you knowing about it. I've had that happen many times.

    * With the hair selected go to the content library pane/people/Genesis 8 male/hair and locate the hair and materials folder(s), you should find the 3Delight mats in one of them. Don't use the smart content!

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
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