Anyone else notice in "Modern Shaker Style Kitchen" ?
dragoneyes002
Posts: 205
just had a look at [Modern Shaker Style Kitchen, a] this quite well detailed kitchen I really do like the detailing EXCEPT for one glaring OOOPS!
there is no entrance into "the House" just the one door to the yard and a window on the same side. its not really a big deal for some of us who do our own 3D modeling to change a wall into a pathway but it really does seem to be a fairly obvious oversight in the product.
edit: the link to. https://www.daz3d.com/modern-shaker-style-kitchen
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Comments
I assume you mean that there is no door into another interior room or hallway/corridor.
A relatively minor issue to me, as I rarely render characters in a doorway. I don't need every room to have real-world functionality. I think of them as being more like theatrical or film/TV sets. Most rooms could be missing two walls or a ceiling, and I could still work with it.
Considering that many people render only portrait pictures, that argument would work for selling figures that only consist of Head and Shoulders, too.
well the fact it even has a door is a miracle in DAZ land
one could have it open into a room instead offset from the window
Well, yeah for those don't model, you can always grab any door prop and slap it against an open wall.
Or invisible/remove the 'yard' door and use that as a hallway entrance. I've seen houses where there is an open space between rooms- usually it was the kitchen to the living room/dining room area...so remove that window and it's a deal.
ANNNDDD many, many vendors plan their products- or imagine them being used in an exact way.
They expect their stuff to just be simple background- backdrops. No need for a door (or working props) when it's all profile shots.
Nothing opens, nothing moves....worse when it's all glued together.
A true hurdle for those of us that make any kind of story-based art.
missing walls behind the camera is one thing but do any series of renders where numbers of characters use a set it'll become obvious there is no entrance they come in from.
it also makes animations in the room much more limited.
Okay, if it's particularly important that the viewer sees characters actually moving through a door, or see a door left ajar, then this room has a problem. Is the lack of the door any more of a problem than the lack of a running water prop for the sink? Or props for a sink full of dirty dishes? Or that the coffee mug has nothing in it? Or that it's always 7:56 on the clock? All products have limitations--They can't be everything to everyone.
As for multiple characters in the scene, conveying to the viewer that a character has entered or exited a scene does not absolutely require a doorway in the rendered frame.
I thought this was just a kitchen furniture prop set without a room. Is a room actually included?
seems there are a number of sides to this. when you mention running water you imply animation. because a static water prop either water in the sink or a tube of water set at the spigot are all that is needed for a single render.
the clocks are as easy as PS the map to whatever you want again not a big deal for people who do much more than use the product as is.
you say a scene can never show where the entrance is. which is true EXCEPT if you want to use the entire environment you purchased. making all your shots face either north and west while never showing east and south because it'll expose the lack of an entrance kind of decreases the value of said product which is the reason I mentioned this at all.
let the ones defending it buy it and save your money
there are lots of other kitchens in the DAZ store many professionally modelled
the best way to communicate dissatisfaction is with your wallet, not arguing with randoms on a peer to peer forum
It's a moot point. The product does have two doors.
What is strange is that both use the exact same thick, heavy door model, which looks out of place for an interior doorway--especially a kitchen, where people will presumably come and go all the time while carrying stuff with both hands. It also has a lot of unbeveled 90 degree edges, a scene hierarchy with clearly autogenerated names, and triangle-based geometry. I suspect the author made it with an archviz program.
It's easy-ish to delete the door with the geometry editor and position a dining room through the open doorway so it looks like they're connected, maybe with some primitive planes to prevent light leakage. It's not the best-looking environment I've seen, but I got it for cheap (relative to the "Feed the People" bundle's price), so it's not that egregious for me.
Err, no. The exit door is next to the fridge, while the window is over the sink. Those are two different walls. It is a fairly common One-Exit-Kitchen.
Edit: Actually two door. Ninjaed by someone who actually has the product.
I only see one door leading outside.
I'd be returning it.
... I'm certainly no longer interested in what at first glance is a very nice kitchen.
Many, many times I've had to restrain myself here for this exact reason. Your words are sage advice, @WendyLuvsCatz!
There are actually 2 doorways: one next to the fridge and one next to the window. In the screenshots, the one next to the fridge is being shown as an exterior door which is what is so confusing. Your best bet is to hide the door itself and leave it as just the doorway and use the door next to the windows as an exterior door. The one by the fridge doesn't really fit as an interior door. At best, I would expect a swinging saloon door there...certainly not an exterior door.
It may have been modeled this way to make it easier to use different angles with various environment maps. If you don't want to pan around the whole kitchen but just want a single angle then you can easily get an exterior door and use some HDRI for the outside without having to attach another room into your scene. That's being a little generous to the artist though, so it was most likely just an oversight to use the same style door in both places.
the best way to communicate dissatisfaction is with your wallet, not arguing with randoms on a peer to peer forum
Bad advice.
A) No one is arguing. There is actually communication and conversation happening and NEW INFORMATION is being presented. That's a good thing.
b) Randos? No, actually PEERS where people are sharing their experiences and being helpful by making suggestions.
c) Speaking with you wallet- strange how that's a suggested thing, but everyone hates when vendors use the WALLET for the reason they ignore 85% of consumer requests - you know more male clothes , no heels and tons of super detailed (extra-bonus) features- that take too long to impact their bottom line, er um, wallet.
d) As a Vendor, missing a sale here or there is NOT noticed. AND, how would anyone know WHY a person passed on a product? Are they supposedd to go "Gee whiz, lower sales, it must have been the hard-to-see-door and non working can opener!".
e) A forum post will actually link to the product and may give that vendor better insight for their NEXT product. Or at least get them to provide more promos that better illustrate all the available options.
f) Letters matter. That's why companies bend backwards to honor any letter they get. The effort it takes to write a letter and mail it in counts. Emails and forum posts also matter. A vendor is likely to pause over this attention to detail.
g) Peer to peer communication is still king at influencing. A bad forum post is a negative and a positive thread CREATES sales.
h) If you followed your own advice you wouldn't have posted. What you did say led to some thinking- and besides everyone loves @WendyLuvsCatz and I post a reply because I care about you, your thoughts and the forum and ....
and.....it was well worth sharing. I say we keep it going.
Asking because I don't know: Does Daz pass along all inquiries, requests, complaints etc to PAs or only tell them when something broken needs to be fixed?
Daz is supposed to handle all tech support issues. Vendors PAY (a cut) for that service.
Anecdotal, but: When I have had issues that go beyond what Daz tech is able to address, they have contacted the PA and the PA did respond.
So it would seem - the issue needs to escalate to that level.
inquiries, requests, complaints etc
I would probably say it's a case by case basis.
But even so, how many times are we asked to create a ticket (which, in this case is basically a letter) to make it official?
I have suggested numerous things on the forum. I was contacted and told to write an official letter to Daz, the company and well, they did respond and do something.
I have suggested to thin air that 'Some vendor should....." and a lot of people have even said "Great idea!" and nothing happened.
I started writing direct letters to vendors asking for what I think would be a good product AND WHY.
And I show that I was also thinking about SALES when I make suggestions.
Several products are in the store that I asked for with more on the way.
Writing letters matter.
If there is a second door, the promo pics are quite confusing. It really could use a top down floor plan style shot to better show the layout of the kitchen. Because in some of these pics I am not sure which direction I am looking. It does look kind of nice. The dish washer, stove, and washing machine all open up.
There is a washing machine in the kitchen? Is that a European thing? I have never seen that in my travels, and I have been in hundreds of homes, if not a thousand or two in my work. I have seen a laundry room right next to a kitchen, but not a washer actually in a kitchen. I am more curious about this than the lack of a door.
These days many homes have a fairly open concept where the kitchen may blend with another area. So if single walls can be removed, that would be nice. And if that is possible, then someone could use the Create a Room or whatever it is called product to add a wall with a doorway that is exactly the size they want.
So are the walls separate pieces or are they all one piece? If they are one piece then that would be my deal breaker. And on that note, I like it when the PA lists that walls are separate parts, that is very helpful to know. So that would be my advice to the PA on this one, and showing a pic of the floor plan.
The walls are all one piece, called "Kitchen Cube" in the scene menu. Moreover, parts -- but not all -- of the cabinets are also part of the kitchen cube, so when you turn it off, a big chunk of the kitchen goes with it. (Also, the shell of the oven, the washer/dryer and all the counter tops are part of the kitchen cube as well.)
It does have some nice props. I just wish more of the appliances were separate, like the refrigerator, but it's the only separated appliance. The other appliances are all part of the kitchen cube.
Honestly, if this wasn't part of a charitable bundle, I probably wouldn't have bought it, and I'd definitely have returned it if I had.
outrider42, you're absolutely right about the lack of a top-down floor-plan render. And the washing machine next to the oven is odd. In East Asia, many homes have no utility room or laundry room, so washers may be in kitchens or bathrooms, as those rooms will have the plumbing. Dryers can be quite rare, and people are expected to dry their wet clothes on a clothesline.
vwrangler, thanks for noticing the "kitchen cube". To me, having to deal with all four walls as a unit is a much bigger problem than a lack of doors. As I've mentioned, characters in film and video routinely enter interior scenes by moving into frame, and the viewers logically assume that a door was used.
The washing machine in the kitchen like that is mostly, as far as I know, a typically British thing. Here in the Netherlands, the washing machine is quite often in the bathroom or in the attic. Other European countries will have different conventions.
The attic? Houses must be built to a higher standard in the Netherlands than in Merrie England. If I put my washing machine in the attic, the first time it kicked over to spin cycle it would probably end up in the kitchen.
maybe, but I think it's mostly masochism and/or hatred of delivery men - hauling a washing machine up several sets of stairs...
and obviously not using an outdoors clothesline.
People actually do - when it's not raining.
Disclosure: I live in an apartment, so the washing machine is in the bathroom, and I dry clothes on a rack that hangs from a door. I do have a balcony, but only use it to dry large, heavy stuff like a duvet or blankets and hope they don't get shat on by birds.
I've made a few trips to London and every condo that I've stayed in had a washing machine in the kitchen. I always assumed it was like this for small rental units, so no idea how common it is in homes.
Oh wow, this is a huge deal. I frequently turn off walls in order to get the right angle or I turn off different props in order to speed rendering times. If it's all one giant piece then that could be a huge issue. It's a shame because it looks very nice and would make a great set.
It's a nice looking set but not being able to selectively turn of walls is a big drawback.
...seems there's more and more rooms without doors lately. Even if it doesn't open to a hallway at least it's there. Not everyone is into modelling or even rigging. Substituting a door from another set is one solution, but it would look a bit odd if it didn't match the architectural style.
Oh and for the clock, what about a simple slider for each hand to rotate them (particularly on a set that lists at 25$).
Crikey Ness'old Harpsichord lists for 13.95$ (currently on sale for 1.95$) and is not only beautifully detailed but all 61 keys are articulated.
Well, it probably depends on the size of the flat and not the country you're living in?!? My mother had the washing machine in the kitchen from the 60's on 'til she moved out some 5 years ago. It was a 4 storeys (sp?) house with 8 flats built in 1912 or so. No other place to put the washing machine, due to no room in the cellar.
I lived in a multi storeys house from the early 20th century, too, and I faced the same problem, so my washing machine ended up in the kitchen, too.
So I'd say in most older houses with multiple floors here in Germany the washing machines end up either in the kitchen or the bathroom, as these usually are the only rooms with a waterconnection. In single family houses or newer multiple floor houses they often end up in a special room, usually in the cellar.
Or one might say: they get put whereever is enough space and a water connection
I don't think it's about "convention" but about practicability (see above). In a holiday appartment - which was set up with three floors: enty, living and a flat roof - in Cagliari, Sardinia, the washing machine was positioned on the flat roof... open air... in a metal box. I don't think that's a "convention" in Sardinia or Italy.. it's just there wasn't any other spot to put it to in that appartment