Questions for owners of Biscuits' Noa Hair for G8F [SOLVED]

Cora Regina

So, the Biscuits Noa Hair is gor-ge-ous and I've been mulling over picking it up. I did have a couple questions, though, which hopefully someone who owns it can answer!

1. Is it built on a skullcap that can be forcibly fit cross-gender, and have you done this successfully? Someone in the dForce hair thread said that the majority are even if it's not mentioned and can thus be used for figures other than G8F, but I want to know for certain before I buy it. I have a G8M character in desperate need of the sort of big, high, dForce ponytail that I know we'll never see explicitly for the guys. I've always read that the rules for dForce hair are different, whether it's the newer stuff or the older sets that used a different method (and could be used on other figures via stacked fitting), but wasn't sure whether that was only for SBH grown directly on a character rather than a cap. 

Assuming that what I want to do is possible...

2. What do the Adjust Braid Height/Scale/Z and Adjust Tail Root morphs do? I can make a good guess, but if someone who has the hair could show me what the realistic min and max for those are, plus the maximum effect of the Style: Short setting if possible, it would be incredibly helpful! I don't need big, high-quality images or anything, just enough to get an idea of how much styling/sizing flexibility the ponytail base and braid have, and overall length. My character technically has loose hair wrapped around his (I'm also looking at the Lea Hair but the tail on Noa is more accurate), however I think I can definitely make a braid work if it's got decent potential for adjusting dimensions. 

I will be so grateful for any help or input that anyone can offer. I've avoided dForce hair for the longest time since I work mostly with long-haired males, but since someone said that most of it can in fact be used on G8M guys, I was thinking it might be time to test the waters with a favorite character.

Sevrin

Cora Regina said:

So, the Biscuits Noa Hair is gor-ge-ous and I've been mulling over picking it up. I did have a couple questions, though, which hopefully someone who owns it can answer!

1. Is it built on a skullcap that can be forcibly fit cross-gender, and have you done this successfully? Someone in the dForce hair thread said that the majority are even if it's not mentioned and can thus be used for figures other than G8F, but I want to know for certain before I buy it. I have a G8M character in desperate need of the sort of big, high, dForce ponytail that I know we'll never see explicitly for the guys. I've always read that the rules for dForce hair are different, whether it's the newer stuff or the older sets that used a different method (and could be used on other figures via stacked fitting), but wasn't sure whether that was only for SBH grown directly on a character rather than a cap. 

Assuming that what I want to do is possible...

2. What do the Adjust Braid Height/Scale/Z and Adjust Tail Root morphs do? I can make a good guess, but if someone who has the hair could show me what the realistic min and max for those are, plus the maximum effect of the Style: Short setting if possible, it would be incredibly helpful! I don't need big, high-quality images or anything, just enough to get an idea of how much styling/sizing flexibility the ponytail base and braid have, and overall length. My character technically has loose hair wrapped around his (I'm also looking at the Lea Hair but the tail on Noa is more accurate), however I think I can definitely make a braid work if it's got decent potential for adjusting dimensions. 

I will be so grateful for any help or input that anyone can offer. I've avoided dForce hair for the longest time since I work mostly with long-haired males, but since someone said that most of it can in fact be used on G8M guys, I was thinking it might be time to test the waters with a favorite character.

I don't own this hair, but it's not "dForce hair".  It's transmapped hair with dForce, like Linday's "Classic" hairs.

Daventaki

Noa Hair autofited to G8M. Height/Scale/Z/TailAdjustRoot shown in that order all set at Max 100 default of 0.  Working on the short but im not getting good results with it.....

Daventaki

Short and Short back both set to 100 here default 0

 

Cora Regina

Sevrin said:

Cora Regina said:

So, the Biscuits Noa Hair is gor-ge-ous and I've been mulling over picking it up. I did have a couple questions, though, which hopefully someone who owns it can answer!

1. Is it built on a skullcap that can be forcibly fit cross-gender, and have you done this successfully? Someone in the dForce hair thread said that the majority are even if it's not mentioned and can thus be used for figures other than G8F, but I want to know for certain before I buy it. I have a G8M character in desperate need of the sort of big, high, dForce ponytail that I know we'll never see explicitly for the guys. I've always read that the rules for dForce hair are different, whether it's the newer stuff or the older sets that used a different method (and could be used on other figures via stacked fitting), but wasn't sure whether that was only for SBH grown directly on a character rather than a cap. 

Assuming that what I want to do is possible...

2. What do the Adjust Braid Height/Scale/Z and Adjust Tail Root morphs do? I can make a good guess, but if someone who has the hair could show me what the realistic min and max for those are, plus the maximum effect of the Style: Short setting if possible, it would be incredibly helpful! I don't need big, high-quality images or anything, just enough to get an idea of how much styling/sizing flexibility the ponytail base and braid have, and overall length. My character technically has loose hair wrapped around his (I'm also looking at the Lea Hair but the tail on Noa is more accurate), however I think I can definitely make a braid work if it's got decent potential for adjusting dimensions. 

I will be so grateful for any help or input that anyone can offer. I've avoided dForce hair for the longest time since I work mostly with long-haired males, but since someone said that most of it can in fact be used on G8M guys, I was thinking it might be time to test the waters with a favorite character.

I don't own this hair, but it's not "dForce hair".  It's transmapped hair with dForce, like Linday's "Classic" hairs.

Oh, that's awesome news! I wasn't sure whether it was the old transmapped stuff that uses the cloth dForce, or the newer SBH. I've been having so many problems with the DAZ site lately and couldn't get more than a couple of the promos to load full-size, so while I saw the thumbnail for the one that had what looked like the unrendered hair, I couldn't get in there to see it properly.

 

Daventaki said:

Short and Short back both set to 100 here default 0

 

Thank you so much! Those shots are incredibly helpful, the middle one from your first post looks like it'll be perfect, and the short also looks great. The character's hair is a little wild so I don't need it to dForce perfectly, there can be a few stray bits that do their own thing. I'm so grateful, truly, this is super encouraging news and definitely makes me confident about giving it a shot. :)

 

@Sevrin @Daventaki Thank you both! I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to this, I had an early night and then today's been an absolute disaster (non-stop rushing around, and my dad had to go to the hospital because he decided to go out and be a COVIDiot), so this is the first I've been able to get back to the computer since I posted.

Based on what you've both said and shown me, I think the hair will work great and will definitely pick it up! 

Romulus71

I actually passed on Biscuits hair because the Daz store lists it as a Dforce hair, it is nice to know it uses the cloth engine.

Cora Regina

Romulus71 said:

I actually passed on Biscuits hair because the Daz store lists it as a Dforce hair, it is nice to know it uses the cloth engine.

Same, I hadn't realized. I hate how the store just throws it all into one undifferentiated "dForce hair" category. You have to hope the PA has it explicitly listed in the info on the product page or that you don't overlook when the "what's included" section lists textures at the very end. That's exactly what I did for Noa, but there they are: texture, bump, and opacity maps. If you've got crappy eyesight and are often browsing on a 10-year-old laptop with awful screen like me, sometimes you can't really tell from pictures and so the written info is absolutely crucial.

Daz could seriously save us some grief by creating separate categories. One for the dForce cloth engine stuff, one for strand-based. Both are going to absolutely murder my computer, but one is going to murder it a little more gently and that's the one I'm willing to buy.

Biscuits

Cora Regina said:

Romulus71 said:

I actually passed on Biscuits hair because the Daz store lists it as a Dforce hair, it is nice to know it uses the cloth engine.

Same, I hadn't realized. I hate how the store just throws it all into one undifferentiated "dForce hair" category. You have to hope the PA has it explicitly listed in the info on the product page or that you don't overlook when the "what's included" section lists textures at the very end. That's exactly what I did for Noa, but there they are: texture, bump, and opacity maps. If you've got crappy eyesight and are often browsing on a 10-year-old laptop with awful screen like me, sometimes you can't really tell from pictures and so the written info is absolutely crucial.

Daz could seriously save us some grief by creating separate categories. One for the dForce cloth engine stuff, one for strand-based. Both are going to absolutely murder my computer, but one is going to murder it a little more gently and that's the one I'm willing to buy.

Thank you so much for making this thread!

I didn’t realise it was so confusing to customers whether a hair is using spline strands or actual geometry for dForce Hair!

I will have it explicitly listed in my description from now on with new hairs!

For the record:

Biscuits Hairs are made from actual geometry mesh and transmapped with alpha textures.

They aren’t generated or grown strands/splines with the dForce spline system. (SBH)

So it’s traditional geometry hair like tubes/planes which is dForce ready with the cloth technique.

 

Biscuits

And Thanks to all who helped out with answering questions!

Cora Regina

Biscuits said:

Cora Regina said:

Romulus71 said:

I actually passed on Biscuits hair because the Daz store lists it as a Dforce hair, it is nice to know it uses the cloth engine.

Same, I hadn't realized. I hate how the store just throws it all into one undifferentiated "dForce hair" category. You have to hope the PA has it explicitly listed in the info on the product page or that you don't overlook when the "what's included" section lists textures at the very end. That's exactly what I did for Noa, but there they are: texture, bump, and opacity maps. If you've got crappy eyesight and are often browsing on a 10-year-old laptop with awful screen like me, sometimes you can't really tell from pictures and so the written info is absolutely crucial.

Daz could seriously save us some grief by creating separate categories. One for the dForce cloth engine stuff, one for strand-based. Both are going to absolutely murder my computer, but one is going to murder it a little more gently and that's the one I'm willing to buy.

Thank you so much for making this thread!

I didn’t realise it was so confusing to customers whether a hair is using spline strands or actual geometry for dForce Hair!

I will have it explicitly listed in my description from now on with new hairs!

For the record:

Biscuits Hairs are made from actual geometry mesh and transmapped with alpha textures.

They aren’t generated or grown strands/splines with the dForce spline system. (SBH)

So it’s traditional geometry hair like tubes/planes which is dForce ready with the cloth technique.

 

That is so awesome, thank you! I always loved your hair over at Rendo and was really excited to see you begin selling over here, too. I love Kiva and am still sad that Hair Salon NO1 is Poser-only, because it would be so perfect for my guy. The Noa Hair is just so beautiful and I can't wait to play with it.

With some hair it's easy to tell, but others can be more difficult, especially for people new to using dForce for anything apart from clothing (or when the website malfunctions and we can't enlarge the thumbnails OTL). I only thought of dForce in terms of the cloth engine for the longest time, and then suddenly discussions were popping up about SBH, how there were now two kinds of dForce hair that had the same name but worked completely differently, and when I went to learn more it was difficult. Having that information laid out is so very much appreciated, it's helpful for us inexperienced folk who... also completely overlook that there was a section that mentioned the opacity maps. OTL x 2.

With the store just chucking it all into the same category, in spite of using different dForce methods (cloth vs SBH), it's put me off trying dForce hair for so long -- but I couldn't resist anymore when I saw Noa. It's just too lovely to pass up, especially knowing that it uses cloth dForcing, and will make a fine addition to my embarrassingly large ponytail collection. :D

Romulus71

Biscuits said:

So it’s traditional geometry hair like tubes/planes which is dForce ready with the cloth technique.

 

Thank you for confirming. I will definitely get Noa now!