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Let's talk about Daz's animation feature

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  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited September 2020
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the Poser timeline itself albeit tiny and difficult with it's little squares is far more accurate to expand and add, copy, paste, delete keyframes

    D|S timeline does very weird stuff if you do that such as the 360 spins and tweening from nonexistent keyframes

    for example I can take any point on the Poser timeline create a snapshot keyframe on everything and copy and paste it to the beginning and remove all animation afterwards creating a new start

    doing that in D|S is challenging

    Carrara I have even more options such as making everything an animation group, saving a pose or clip and completely clearing the timeline giving me a static snapshot/s wherever I please to use as a beginning

    and remove all animation in iClone anywhere along the timeline does that too

    these are the sort of things I would love added to D|S

    and tracking, animation paths, animated textures integrated with a surfaces interface

    You know I found a great work around for doing 360 spins for characters and cameras . I use the joint editor and move the (y) axes pivot point of the spin to center the rotation. then create a keyframe on1 and begin your spin there . works smooth as silk that way  But the pivot point of the axes you need center will depend on the direction of your 360 spin. top to bottom will require you to center the x rotation.   super useful trick for spinning cameras or creating off-sets motions  like to off set the camera outside a movie car and how the camera rotate around the car . using the joint editor has allowed me to keyframe the (axes)  & if you have the graph mate plugin you can also blend the rotations axes on the timeline  by the off-set axes  give it a try sometime. smiley

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,614
    edited September 2020

    I have a script by f7eer to fix it for figures 

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5582166/#Comment_5582166

    edited to fix spelling and add link

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,837
    edited September 2020
    REDACTED DUE TO SOFT BAN
    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    good demo wolf  thanks for the info :)

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,614
    edited September 2020

    Wolf. you and Ivy are actually discussing something different to what I meant, the hip rotation thing on figures f7eer's script fixes as it is a pose issue not a tweening one

    the issue I am describing is not limited to figures or any one joint on one, in fact it occurs more with objects and is an entire 360° spin, its to do with angles and how they are keyframed on the timeline, the fix is indeed to add interpolating angles inbetween but the problem is if you don't have an existing keyframe and delete any anywhere D|S will tween back or forwards to another or more of an issue add an arbitrary one to the beginning that actually does not exist, 

    the problem is not that one cannot do it correctly in the first place

    the problem is one has no easy way to fix it if one doesn't 

    I actually was making a feature request here not asking how to do it correctly in the first place devil

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,614
    edited September 2020

    if there is a way to keyframe every single possible parameter on every object and figure in D|S at once at any point on the timeline I really would love to know about it cheeky

    I mean morphs, scaling, pose controls too, utterly everything

    I can do it in Carrara and it's a lifesaver

    remove all animation with everything frozen in place on a chosen point of the timeline like iClone can would still be better but that would be a start

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,723

    In response to the original post, I have a feeling that Animation in Daz Studio is greatly enhanced with the aniMate 2 paid version, which unloacks some very useful tools.

    Yep. It's a bummer of a timeline compared to Carrara's, there's no tip toing around that one. I love how BVH imports into Daz Studio, so I use that and then bake the result into aniBlocks, which I then take into Carrara, where I can edit literally any portion of the animation I like. I often delete the arms and head/neck key frames and animate those elements by hand, or blended with the arms from something else entirely, for example.

    I have an aniMate 2 page with a bunch of video tutorials and demonstrations from GoFigure. It's eye-opening to see what all aniMate 2 comes with for useful tools in editing your animations without touching a single key. It comes with a tool for reshaping the path of any limb's motion, special foot adjustment controls from one aniBlock to another and a lot more.

    In the opening, you were talking about having a sleek toolset - using one tools for most anything. For me, that;s Carrara 8.5 Pro - hands down. It's dirt-cheap for PC+ members as well. But I like to keep Daz Studio around for aniMate 2 and all it can do - even though, having Carrara, I still haven't tried all of those cool aniMate 2 tools I was just mentioning, which is why I made that page - so I can study that stuff and give it a whirl in Daz Studio. 

    I like this video, where Steph from Daz 3D shows us the new Graph Editor (purchased by Daz from GoFigure - used to be GraphMate)

    In Carrara, we could actually grab that whole arc that she delete (before moving the one key) and scale the whole arc up or down, making the entire edit as smooth as the original animation, yet as exaggerated as we want it to be. We can even tweak individual morph animations, x, y, z independently, apply oscillations, noise, curves....

    Carrara Rocks!

    I agree with Wendy!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,614
    edited September 2020
    Ivy said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the Poser timeline itself albeit tiny and difficult with it's little squares is far more accurate to expand and add, copy, paste, delete keyframes

    D|S timeline does very weird stuff if you do that such as the 360 spins and tweening from nonexistent keyframes

    for example I can take any point on the Poser timeline create a snapshot keyframe on everything and copy and paste it to the beginning and remove all animation afterwards creating a new start

    doing that in D|S is challenging

    Carrara I have even more options such as making everything an animation group, saving a pose or clip and completely clearing the timeline giving me a static snapshot/s wherever I please to use as a beginning

    and remove all animation in iClone anywhere along the timeline does that too

    these are the sort of things I would love added to D|S

    and tracking, animation paths, animated textures integrated with a surfaces interface

    You know I found a great work around for doing 360 spins for characters and cameras . I use the joint editor and move the (y) axes pivot point of the spin to center the rotation. then create a keyframe on1 and begin your spin there . works smooth as silk that way  But the pivot point of the axes you need center will depend on the direction of your 360 spin. top to bottom will require you to center the x rotation.   super useful trick for spinning cameras or creating off-sets motions  like to off set the camera outside a movie car and how the camera rotate around the car . using the joint editor has allowed me to keyframe the (axes)  & if you have the graph mate plugin you can also blend the rotations axes on the timeline  by the off-set axes  give it a try sometime. smiley

    I also have a workaround for this BTW

    I parent the camera to a null in the centre of the scene or where I want it which does exactly the same thing

    I avoid gimbal lock this way too

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited September 2020
    WendyLuvsCatz said:
    Ivy said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the Poser timeline itself albeit tiny and difficult with it's little squares is far more accurate to expand and add, copy, paste, delete keyframes

    D|S timeline does very weird stuff if you do that such as the 360 spins and tweening from nonexistent keyframes

    for example I can take any point on the Poser timeline create a snapshot keyframe on everything and copy and paste it to the beginning and remove all animation afterwards creating a new start

    doing that in D|S is challenging

    Carrara I have even more options such as making everything an animation group, saving a pose or clip and completely clearing the timeline giving me a static snapshot/s wherever I please to use as a beginning

    and remove all animation in iClone anywhere along the timeline does that too

    these are the sort of things I would love added to D|S

    and tracking, animation paths, animated textures integrated with a surfaces interface

    You know I found a great work around for doing 360 spins for characters and cameras . I use the joint editor and move the (y) axes pivot point of the spin to center the rotation. then create a keyframe on1 and begin your spin there . works smooth as silk that way  But the pivot point of the axes you need center will depend on the direction of your 360 spin. top to bottom will require you to center the x rotation.   super useful trick for spinning cameras or creating off-sets motions  like to off set the camera outside a movie car and how the camera rotate around the car . using the joint editor has allowed me to keyframe the (axes)  & if you have the graph mate plugin you can also blend the rotations axes on the timeline  by the off-set axes  give it a try sometime. smiley

    I also have a workaround for this BTW

    I parent the camera to a null in the centre of the scene or where I want it which does exactly the same thing

    I avoid gimbal lock this way too

    Yes I am sure there is a lot of ways to do it. i use nulls and primitives all the time too for camera and different props movements setting up IK-chians for prop interaction.. but the steps i did above were for quick fixes to simple rotation issues giving you those funny hops when you do a spin on a obj or character figure.. a lot of times when i'm trying to do a gymnastic, or kick boxing animation I have to change the pivot points and axes location with the joint editor to keep from getting those weird flips you were talking about. It was just a quick fix for simple issues,.no biggie really. 

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,614
    edited September 2020
    Ivy said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:
    Ivy said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the Poser timeline itself albeit tiny and difficult with it's little squares is far more accurate to expand and add, copy, paste, delete keyframes

    D|S timeline does very weird stuff if you do that such as the 360 spins and tweening from nonexistent keyframes

    for example I can take any point on the Poser timeline create a snapshot keyframe on everything and copy and paste it to the beginning and remove all animation afterwards creating a new start

    doing that in D|S is challenging

    Carrara I have even more options such as making everything an animation group, saving a pose or clip and completely clearing the timeline giving me a static snapshot/s wherever I please to use as a beginning

    and remove all animation in iClone anywhere along the timeline does that too

    these are the sort of things I would love added to D|S

    and tracking, animation paths, animated textures integrated with a surfaces interface

    You know I found a great work around for doing 360 spins for characters and cameras . I use the joint editor and move the (y) axes pivot point of the spin to center the rotation. then create a keyframe on1 and begin your spin there . works smooth as silk that way  But the pivot point of the axes you need center will depend on the direction of your 360 spin. top to bottom will require you to center the x rotation.   super useful trick for spinning cameras or creating off-sets motions  like to off set the camera outside a movie car and how the camera rotate around the car . using the joint editor has allowed me to keyframe the (axes)  & if you have the graph mate plugin you can also blend the rotations axes on the timeline  by the off-set axes  give it a try sometime. smiley

    I also have a workaround for this BTW

    I parent the camera to a null in the centre of the scene or where I want it which does exactly the same thing

    I avoid gimbal lock this way too

    Yes I am sure there is a lot of ways to do it. i use nulls and primitives all the time too for camera and different props movements setting up IK-chians for prop interaction.. but the steps i did above were for quick fixes to simple rotation issues giving you those funny hops when you do a spin on a obj or character figure.. a lot of times when i'm trying to do a gymnastic, or kick boxing animation I have to change the pivot points and axes location with the joint editor to keep from getting those weird flips you were talking about. It was just a quick fix for simple issues,.no biggie really. 

    still we can ask or suggest nice features other programs have too instead of just finding DS workarounds 

    I really only posted in reply to the OP wishing D|S had some of those cool features found in other software instead of people needing to bridge elsewhere like I do

    not everyone wants to work as hard as you do fighting the software 

    some of us love easy little cheats other softwares offer

    be it walk designer, motion paths, floor collisions with feet, ability to grab a point in time and remove animation or keyframe everything from that point, swap characters on the fly etc

    blueprints and lua scripts on objects for character interactions 
    follow terrain

    have collisions with obstacles like walls  while walking your character recording in realtime

    physics

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited September 2020
    WendyLuvsCatz said:
    Ivy said:
     

    still we can ask or suggest nice features other programs have too instead of just finding DS workarounds 

    I really only posted in reply to the OP wishing D|S had some of those cool features found in other software instead of people needing to bridge elsewhere like I do

    not everyone wants to work as hard as you do fighting the software 

    some of us love easy little cheats other softwares offer

    Whos working hard fighting the software? 

    Of course I am for improvements, Who isn't?   I have Carrara Pro,  I have a few howie fawkes sets i purchased for it.  But I can't use it for poop. I have poser pro11  can use it okay . But still prefer using daz studio.

    I have ue4 , blender, Maya 2014 . But yet i still keep going back to daz. for my animation. I don't see it as fighting the daz studio software ,For me, I know the daz software app well enough, so animation creation has become more like finding all the pieces of a jig saw puzzle and putting them together.  But better easier improvements, Sure thing bring them on. But with daz new and improved does not really mean Improved just because its new.  I still prefer the graphmate over the daz graph editor which are basically the same thing.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,723
    Ivy said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:
    Ivy said:
     

    still we can ask or suggest nice features other programs have too instead of just finding DS workarounds 

    I really only posted in reply to the OP wishing D|S had some of those cool features found in other software instead of people needing to bridge elsewhere like I do

    not everyone wants to work as hard as you do fighting the software 

    some of us love easy little cheats other softwares offer

    Whos working hard fighting the software? 

    Of course I am for improvements, Who isn't?   I have Carrara Pro,  I have a few howie fawkes sets i purchased for it.  But I can't use it for poop. I have poser pro11  can use it okay . But still prefer using daz studio.

    I have ue4 , blender, Maya 2014 . But yet i still keep going back to daz. for my animation. I don't see it as fighting the daz studio software ,For me, I know the daz software app well enough, so animation creation has become more like finding all the pieces of a jig saw puzzle and putting them together.  But better easier improvements, Sure thing bring them on. But with daz new and improved does not really mean Improved just because its new.  I still prefer the graphmate over the daz graph editor which are basically the same thing.

    That's exactly it. Every one of us find our comfort zone and we tend to enjoy that best. That's the magic of variety!

    A dear friend of mine is high onn the ladder at Sony Online Entertainment, and says that Maya - plain and simple - is the only way to go.

    Well, for me there's nothing like my good ol' trusty Carrara 8.5 Pro!

    Seeing your animations over the years tells me that Daz Studio is a fine choice. The big thing for me is that I also work long, hard hours (away from computers), so learning something new takes time - time that I could be spending animating. So I've been dedicating my learning-curve time to non-linear video editing and VFX so that, when my animations are finished rendering, I can put them together. Screenplay writing and storytelling have also played their part in pulling my attention away.

    I keep asking myself when I'm going to just take a break and try animating in DS, opening Bryce and playing around. I have yet to answer myself. Maybe one day.

    Anyway, there really isn't any reason to argue this over that, right? We all want to make images move. PD Howler and Carrara are my babies!!! ;)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    ... I still stick by my original statement too.  everything animation with daz studio has always been 3rd party tools,  example  animate2 , aniblocks,  animated textures scripts. etc. They do not originate from the studio software itself. you want water simulations you have to buy the fludios plugin for it. you want volumetric clouds you have to buy the plugin for it. etc. Physics & Particle engines?  sure I would love daz to have those. But no 3rd party artist has made a plugin for those in for daz yet have they?  everything animation with daz studio has been offered by 3rd parties.   until recently when daz implemented the new graphic and keyframe editor which I wish we could make into tabs instead of a split screen timeline, that is why i prefer graphmate and keymate over the daz graph editor  for independent screen tabs

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,723

    ...and I'll still be AniMating in Carrara! :)

    I still accidentally laugh me arse off when I say "Base Scene" (toward the beginning) and there she is playing a Bass! LOL

    Our buddy Garstor switched to LightWave years ago, but he doesn't do animations. After seeing some of their promos and feature demonstrations over the years, I'd love to animate in that bad boy! But only id Daz 3D bought it and gave it Genesis (at least generation 5) support! ;)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,723

    In the link at the top of my last post, the Hybrid aniMating in Carrara page has the demo videos for PhilW's awesome recent video course: Animating in Carrara.

    The second video is the result of the climax lesson, where he teaches us to build, set up for animation, and animate a robot. It's really cool what he did with this course!

    Unlike many topic about animation, he briefly mentions bringing in motion capture data, but most everything is about traditional animation, the theory and practical side of making realistic animations. Totally worth it - he's always so resourceful and complete any time he makes a video course!

  • windli3356windli3356 Posts: 239

    too much to reply, I will come back and do it another time, but folks, I don't mean to start a fight here, like WendyLuvsCatz said, I'm just someone who wish to do all my stuff in Daz, when I saw some ZOMG features in iClone, I just wish Daz would offer the same or similar to make my(and other animation lovers) live easier, and most importantly, to keep all my purchase in one marketplace.   This is just an open discussion, all opinions are welcome, I respect them all. Good to see some folks here able to do magic with what DAZ currently offers. 

    So I never knew this Carrara thing utill I read the comments on here, it really sound like the iClone to CC3, and I aware it stopped developing years ago, but how is it? does it support gen8? I don't mind dump some cash for it if it offers enough features, I literally can't find ANYTHING about it on the net other than the fact that the development discontinued 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,614
    edited September 2020
    windli3356 said:

    too much to reply, I will come back and do it another time, but folks, I don't mean to start a fight here, like WendyLuvsCatz said, I'm just someone who wish to do all my stuff in Daz, when I saw some ZOMG features in iClone, I just wish Daz would offer the same or similar to make my(and other animation lovers) live easier, and most importantly, to keep all my purchase in one marketplace.   This is just an open discussion, all opinions are welcome, I respect them all. Good to see some folks here able to do magic with what DAZ currently offers. 

    So I never knew this Carrara thing utill I read the comments on here, it really sound like the iClone to CC3, and I aware it stopped developing years ago, but how is it? does it support gen8? I don't mind dump some cash for it if it offers enough features, I literally can't find ANYTHING about it on the net other than the fact that the development discontinued 

    genesis 3&8 will crash Carrara as is but there are off site workarounds, nothing supportive from DAZ3D on that at all crying

    Genesis 2 and below is very good especially the legacy Poser stuff like V4 etc

    and iClone characters FBX exported will  import too but you need to do one animation take per file, iClone blend-shapes are not supported

    its often on sale and very cheap when it is if one joins the PC+ clubenlightened

    I am of course very biased as a Carrara and iClone user wink

    we have a forum here

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/carrara-discussion

     

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,723
    windli3356 said:

    too much to reply, I will come back and do it another time, but folks, I don't mean to start a fight here, like WendyLuvsCatz said, I'm just someone who wish to do all my stuff in Daz, when I saw some ZOMG features in iClone, I just wish Daz would offer the same or similar to make my(and other animation lovers) live easier, and most importantly, to keep all my purchase in one marketplace.   This is just an open discussion, all opinions are welcome, I respect them all. Good to see some folks here able to do magic with what DAZ currently offers. 

    So I never knew this Carrara thing utill I read the comments on here, it really sound like the iClone to CC3, and I aware it stopped developing years ago, but how is it? does it support gen8? I don't mind dump some cash for it if it offers enough features, I literally can't find ANYTHING about it on the net other than the fact that the development discontinued 

    The last thing I ever intend is to fight - just FYI. I hope I didn't come across that way!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,614

    I was not trying to start a fight either, I was actually agreeing with the OP D|S could use some additional animation features

    but not everyone agrees with this, some are happy with it as is and that is fine too

  • GalaxyGalaxy Posts: 562

    Daz Studio is almost as good as other animation software. It can import BVH files easily. There are some add on also available.

    I occasionally create some short movement and for this purpose Daz Studio built in animation facilities is more than enough.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited September 2020
    windli3356 said:

    too much to reply, I will come back and do it another time, but folks, I don't mean to start a fight here, like WendyLuvsCatz said, I'm just someone who wish to do all my stuff in Daz, when I saw some ZOMG features in iClone, I just wish Daz would offer the same or similar to make my(and other animation lovers) live easier, and most importantly, to keep all my purchase in one marketplace.   This is just an open discussion, all opinions are welcome, I respect them all. Good to see some folks here able to do magic with what DAZ currently offers. 

    So I never knew this Carrara thing utill I read the comments on here, it really sound like the iClone to CC3, and I aware it stopped developing years ago, but how is it? does it support gen8? I don't mind dump some cash for it if it offers enough features, I literally can't find ANYTHING about it on the net other than the fact that the development discontinued 

    We don't fight among us. you can believe me in the fact the animators here are very close and good friends, we are very passionate with our art form. and we even work with each other on projects. Artist/animators like Wendy & wolf have learned to work with multiple 3d software. Specially Wendy who is always willing to try new things that has been released and is very good at learning the new stuff quickly and she gladly shares her finding to everyone.,

    Wolf who is actually pro has a International Movie Data Base profile for his professional work in animation. and you would be wise to listen to his advice.

    the rest of us here Bennie, Dantanbeck a few others Robison ect we all have a passion for what we do here & are very passionate on how we do in our work flow . we all have our specialties in what we work with.   Do we argue? discuss our goals with conviction? You betcha we love what we do.  But we still have great respect and admiration for the talents for each artist that bring their talents to the table.

    I have bought and used other software  but prefer to use daz studio.  my discussions can be a bit harsh and to the point, I don't believe in being PC or pussy footing around issues & tell it straight.   Plus I am only one of the few people here that actually just uses the daz software for animation.  So it may come across as I am defensive of daz studio & maybe a I am a little but only because I love working with it so much.

    The biggest issue with daz studio & making animation with it . Is just learning how the studio app works, inside-out. and having some good old school art back ground to help you get projects done. But you can trust when I say the animators and artist in this thread we have great respect for each others talents &  work flows. & we are very passionate about it smiley

    Post edited by Ivy on
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