Zbrush alternatives? (maybe "light weighted")
akmerlow
Posts: 1,124
I just remember again how i have almost PTSD feelings after my short experience with Zbrush when i was attending some CG education courses... Mostly because - subjectivly - Zbrush has most insane, illogical and counter-user interface and UI/UX. Especially if you come from background of 3d software (be it hexagone, max, maya, even blender!)... ZB really works totally different even if most simple things and can drive to total madness and desparation instantly (you really have to "Get used" to how menus, clicks etc. work and don't abandon for long).
Though however i respect Zbrush's amazing functionality and applaud to the team, who continue working on it even further, adding more and more functions that allow users to create fantastic things with it.
But, i was just reading recommended SysReqs for Zb and caught my attentiont that you'd better have "100 gb disk space for temp files, and preferrably SSD". Which also contributes to my unwillingness for considering Zb again (i usually dont have more than 15 gb on my ssd with os and applications, and my hdd is often 2-8 gb free unless i free up to 20 or 40 gbs at max).
So, any of you 're using alternatives, if they are? Would like to hear.
I'm aware about "Sculptris" which was freeware (and yes, i rememebr it having less alien ui and controls), however Pixologic bought it out, kept for several years, and then rebranded name into some new Zbrush functional (sculptris pro), while providing some demo of Zbrush instead as another trial... tl;dr (original) sculptris is no more (and i heard it was too buggy? maybe crashes on win10?)
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You could take a look at 3D-Coat, which I believe has some similar functionality to ZBrush, and is substantially cheaper. Whether it's a real competitor, I don't know, but my understanding is that it's aiming for something like the same market.
Disclaimer: I've never used ZBrush, so I don't know exactly what feature set it offers. I have played around with 3D-Coat, but I couldn't say that I fully understand what it does or how to use it. I'm not even sure if I like it or not, but it's certainly worth taking a look at to see if it fits your needs.
Thanks. I heard 3d coat is also good for things with UV etc, huh.
Would be glad to hear if someone had experience of specifically using "alternatives" when doing morphs for Genesis, or clothing details, etc. could share a thought.
Because i know that most use Zbrush and its most "supported", but curious!
The Zbrush software alone is only like 7 gigs, just downloaded the latest version. Which is very respected when compared to other 3d programs. It's interface is designed to think more like an artist rather than a 3d modeler. I absolutely love it! Everything makes sense to me on how things are laid out. For the large memory recommendation, you can subdivide models into millions of polygons and when saved are going to eat up memory. However, zbrush saves them as a ztool so it wouldn't use as much storage space as an fbj or obj. Saving any model, in any software, when composed of millions of polys will be very costly in storage space. You can delete these at any time if worried about space. Zbrush is the grand daddy, you're missing out!
Hi, thanks for replying! I like your works, and you always have tons of great details in them, i suppose you use Zbrush constantly :)
Well, about disk question... I just don't know if that "scratch disk space (up to 100 gb)" really needed? Or unless you do douzen million polys, it all fits in RAM? Hm...
I also remember (from that week when i had access to zbrush at education courses), that saved project's size is huge if you keep all those UNDO.
"Artist rather" - i don't know, it's a bit rhetorical theme now :) For example, many years ago i had some experience with traditional art, like watercolour/oil painting, drawing etc. I could do something (like a simple still life etc) costantly, but when we had some "sculpting" (from plasticine, ok) classes it was much worse for me. So maybe, personally i overall prefer "modelling" rather than "sculpting", and drawing with charcoal or pencil is actually close to modelling, because you start with construction of inner base shapes (of which final form consists of), then go in details.
Yet i'm aware that in 3d CG sculpting is amazingly fast and useful to do things, that were either extremely hard or impossible with nurbs or poly or whatever.
Still, Zb's interface and controls give me nightmares. From basic stuff like totally different then in 99% 3d software controls for selecting, rotating, saving etc. etc. to mess of menus, forced fullscreen and more. I don't know, it's like all 3d editors i ever tried or experienced (from videogame level ed to full 3d modelling packages) had more or less unified approach to how basic things work, and Zbrush is totally against that. On many levels. Though honestly i'm overall very picky to interfaces, so it's my fault. For example, pre-2.8 blender also made me sick (yet it was still more conventional than Zb...), and i disliked 3ds max for "open tab in another tab, to enable option to open a tab for another tab in another tab, just to return in previous tab and finally change something". Maya, however, was really comfortable. And i don't have problems with Bryce's labs (they remind me of music making VST plugins). Etc. etc.
Hm, also never was friendly with graphic tablets/styluses like Wacom. Maybe Zbrush oriented for those artists in first place? Idk.
...i'm sorry you have to listen to my silly rants. But i'm glad to hear different inputs on subject, and of course you and your works are great inspirational and convincing example of, well, "why try harder".
(but still, original question "do you use non-zb variants" remains)
Yeah, zbrush you need to use a wacom or a huion to get the most out of it. Well, that is true of most digital art mediums that mimic RL art process. Zbrush, corel painter, photoshop mixer brushes etc. You can use mouse, but it lacks the kind of control you get using pressure etc that you get with a wacom. Blender has some pretty decent sculpting these days. It's no zbrush, but I use it sometimes for simpler things when I am being too lazy to export to ZB lol.
Thank you for the kind words. To truly grasp what the best software is to use for the job, follow artists that are creating content that is related to stuff you're doing and pay attention to the software they use. Artstation has a ton of extreme talent and pretty much all artists post what software they used to creat their content on each post. It's an intergrated feature into posting artwork on artstation which I love. You will find nearly all high-end character artists use zbrush.
I drew a lot as a kid, wanted to be a comic artist when I grew up. I find the sculpting and using the stylus very natural and fluid, much like drawing. Using a mouse is not artist friendly. Modeling is more like a mechanical take on creating, like an engineer or architect would draw. Zbrush can actually do both and I hard surface models all the time using zmodeler. Different types of content calls for different apporaches. I couldn't imagine creating organic things without starting out sculpting though, it saves so much time and you get a much more natural look.
Again, for the UI it is definitely backwards than a modeling program becuase it was built for the ground up to be its own thing and the first real tool of its kind, 3D sculpting. Its designed to be more digital artist friendly rather than say.. what an architect would use. I feel like it used adobe photoshop as an example of how to build an artist friendly UI. Learning how to model in other programs and then trying to learn Zbrush I'm sure can be a real nightmare. Everything is alot more intuitive like rotate, scaling, mirroring, and using all it functions. Like photoshop, hotkeys are a must and zbrush exploits hot keys to their full potential. To select ANY brush you want, usually only involves pressing 2-3 keys and memorizing them is a breeze. Like to select the "Paint" brush, you would just press "B" for brush, "P" for brushes starting with P, and then "A" for the Paint brush. You don't need to ever touch the mouse on majority of your work flow. It's like a high-performance race car and finely tuned for the artist. If your game is more methodical and mechanical inthinking, then Zbrush probably isn't for you. But for what Zbrush is designed to do, there's nothing that comes even close.
I only use Zbrush for topology creation though. UV mapping, texturing, painting, rigging, animating, and even rendering should be done elsewhere. Zbrush CAN do many of those things, but other programs do it better.
You can directly control the poly count on the fly and you would only use high poly counts when making the high-poly version of your model. So most of your saves would be low poly counts and only megabytes in size. Like when I make a t-rex from scratch, and always save as a new file rather than overwriting an old one, my entire folder of builds would be around 15-25 gigs. That includes many high poly saves for the high poly version and a few hundred saved files in total. Until I get to the high poly stuff, my folder is definitely under a gig in size. I don't delete the older saves until my project is complete but you can delete these at any time, saving space. Again, high poly counts are going to cost memory, no matter what program, and you can create high poly versions in many programs. The poly count you are directly in control of and Zbrush has a built feature that can tell what your computer can handle and won't let you go well beyond what it can handle. Undo amounts are also directly controlled and very intuitive as well. There's literally and undo dash-bar that build across your screen with every action. You can just click on any dash and go back to that point instantly. If you hover over the dash it evern gives you further information oof where you were at during that point of time. At any point you can delete your undos to clear up memory.
Zbrush also handles high poly models a lot better than other 3d programs so if you plan on making use of high topology stuff, no one does it better at being as easy on your machine as possible, with that many polys. But if you do plan on using high topology, processing power is what keeps your system stabilized and ram helps with storing and keeping those undo counts high.
...yeah, the dependence on a tablet (not just the cost for the software) keeps me from considering ZBrush as I no longer have a solid grip or steady hand to hold a stylus or apply different pressures (one of the main reasons I moved to 3D CG from traditional art media). With Blender I can use my ergo tracnball.
I don't find a tablet to be a requirement for Zbrush, depending on what you do. If I'm creating basic morphs, or any hard surface props, the move brush and zmodeler brush work awesome with a mouse. For hard surface anything, a mouse is considerably more efficient than using a stylus.
For more organic shapes, however, and any brush that falls under what I'd call "sculpting", I do use a Wacom.
It depends on what you want to do.
As far as I know, Mudbox is the only full-featured alternative to ZBrush I'd consider, but there are probably more out there.
As far as the interface goes, it's just a matter of learning it.
...so for sculpting, a tablet would be more ncessary
Yes. For sculpting, it's best to have pressure control so I do think a stylus is best. Anything organic will benefit from tablet input.
For hard edge modeling a mouse works best.
For breaking meshes down to components, retopologizing, creating morphs, and generating high res obj's for making normal or bump maps, either a mouse or tablet will work.
It depends on your use cases.
Zbrush Core. Its the lightweight version of zbrush.
Also, there's Sculptris...which is just for sculpting.
You'll find both over at pixologic.com
...but neither are compatible with Daz/GOZ.
Probably moot anyway as if a tablet is pretty much required for sculpting, I'll have to cross that off the list.
It's not a pure specialized sculpting program, but blender's sculpt tools are going through some major improvements right now. I'm in the same boat where zbrush interface and me do not get along.
It doesn't have some of the nifty insert nanomesh type things (if thats what you're looking for zbrush is pretty much the only game in town)
For sculpting morphs on genesis/clothing most of the benefits zbrush has shouldn't matter too much (for instance, zbrush is the king of super high mesh resolution but that is mostly irrelevant for genesis morphs)
The only thing you have to lose by testing it is some time.
also if space is a premium blender do be tiny. 500mb which in the world of 3d programs is basically nothing
and for reference some morphs what I have sculpted in blender (one of these things is not like the other, but I couldn't resist)
all of these were used primarily using blender's sculpt mode (if you move/scale the eyes edit mode is the way to go)
You mean, no "instant bridge" when both applications are on? because otherwise, i thought, you export from daz as obj, do things, then re-import back in DS modified obj as "morph"... not that?
j cade, thanks for input :)
ZBrushCore has some major updates to it - but of course it's the ZBrush interface, so that's not what you're looking for.
But for any that may be interested, ZBrushCore is a lightweight version of ZBrush that can be used to get to grips with the interface and if/when you're ready to upgrtade to the full pro version of ZBrush, you will get a reduced price based on what you spent buying ZBrushCore.
I see they deleted old Sclulptris from site though. I'm sure "zbrush core mini" have higher reqs for computer, in comparison.
Honestly i never liked when devs do such. Good ones, in my book, always keep all releases versions of their freeware software on site.
(or maybe i'm too used to opensource culture? idk)
Hello
you can find Sculptris in archive org work with Goz for me
https://archive.org/details/Sculptris