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Daz Studio crashes on launch on macOS Big Sur beta 9

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  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,855
    TBorNot said:

    NVidea now owns ARM.  This graphics portability problem will soon have to be resolved on the PC too, for I doubt they paid billions for a company to not use it.  Many companies are working on graphic intermediaries between IRay and Metal, such as Vulcan, in an attempt to keep software development sane.  Might work, might not.

     

    What has one to do with the other? ARM designs microprocessor cores they then licence to other companies who build their own processors around those. If a company wants to use their own GPU with it there is no forcing them to licence ARM's Mali GPU too.

  • OstadanOstadan Posts: 1,128

    I was thinking of buying a new iMac (my 2014 iMac is kind of a problem nowadays); if I do, will there be a way to install Catalina on it, presuming that Apple now factory-installs Big Sur?

  • Dreams of RealityDreams of Reality Posts: 11
    edited November 2020
    Ostadan said:

    I was thinking of buying a new iMac (my 2014 iMac is kind of a problem nowadays); if I do, will there be a way to install Catalina on it, presuming that Apple now factory-installs Big Sur?

    I'm by no means an expert, but from what I understsand of things Catalina may not work on a new Mac because of the changes that were made to acomodate the new components, but one of two things you could do. One ask an apple tech person (their supper great at helping and telling you the real information about things, and hence why I say I'm not an expert, I don't have access or knowledge to analize the whole technical side of this whole mess. All I can do is analyze what I know and extrapolate so I'm just basically going by that.) or two wait for someone more knowledgable then I am to help you. There are a lot of people here and on the Apple forums who would know more then I ever could. Though I will say this: Big Sur has improved the way that Zbrush, Substance and Adobe products work on the mac. There is a significant improvement there and that plus other things of course is why I will not be going back to Catalina, also Catalina and DAZ had plenty of issues to work around as well, though it did still work. The other thing you should consider with putting an older OS system on a new machine is compatibility of programs that are native to Mac. There is a threshold of which things become incompatible. I don't risk that because I update all the time, but I know it exist. I don't know how many generations you can go back before these issues become an actual issue. But it would be another thing to consider. 

    From where I'm sitting the only thing that has a problem with Big Sur is DAZ. To me I will not risk greater or worse issues with other programs, and especially Apple native programs just for one program that I can find an alternative for in my workflow. I know that sounds harsh and it would definitetly make me sad to abandone my prospects with DAZ, but in the bigger scheme of things you have to weigh the pros and cons of using an older OS. You also have to consider security risks of using an older OS system. There's a reason that upgrades come out and it's more then just to drive us crazy with things malfunctioning. Security is a big reason for upgrades and patches and that shouldn't be ignored when you make that decision. 

    I hope that helpped.

    Post edited by Dreams of Reality on
  • TBorNotTBorNot Posts: 370
    Ascania said:

    What has one to do with the other? ARM designs microprocessor cores

    Because NVidea makes graphics cards and they are also irritated with Intel's lack of CPU ability, just as much as Apple.

  • dcmaiadcmaia Posts: 13
    Ostadan said:

    I was thinking of buying a new iMac (my 2014 iMac is kind of a problem nowadays); if I do, will there be a way to install Catalina on it, presuming that Apple now factory-installs Big Sur?

    Macs cannot run a version of macOS that's older than the one they shipped with. Your best bet is buying a refurbished 2019 or early 2020 model.

  • Dreams of RealityDreams of Reality Posts: 11
    dcmaia said:
    Ostadan said:

    I was thinking of buying a new iMac (my 2014 iMac is kind of a problem nowadays); if I do, will there be a way to install Catalina on it, presuming that Apple now factory-installs Big Sur?

    Macs cannot run a version of macOS that's older than the one they shipped with. Your best bet is buying a refurbished 2019 or early 2020 model.

    Thank you dcmaia I though this was the case but didn't want to say that for sure without fact checking. 

  • leemoon_c43b45a114leemoon_c43b45a114 Posts: 868

    I purchased a new MacBook Pro 16" on Monday instead of waiting for higher performance/storage M1 Macs.  My reasoning wss that I could get one that was still loaded with Catalina.

    The MacBook arrived yesterday and it had Catalina installed as expected.  DS 4.12 runs great on it.  Not sure if I have the courage to jump it to 4.14 just yet. LOL.

    I believe dcmaia is correct regarding Mac not being able to run older versions of macOS than what they were originally shipped with.  System Restore will allow you to go back from Big Sur to Catalina, IF the Mac model originally launched with Catalina installed, even if Apple loads Big Sur on the same Mac model later in the run.

    Lee

  • Dreams of RealityDreams of Reality Posts: 11
    edited November 2020
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

    The MacBook arrived yesterday and it had Catalina installed as expected.  DS 4.12 runs great on it.  Not sure if I have the courage to jump it to 4.14 just yet. LOL.

     

    from what I have figured out by the first few posts of this thread 4.14 isnt meant to work on mac yet. I had it before I upgraded to Big Sur and it worked fine, but it had none of the new features so it wasn't worth the time it took to upgrade. Just saying. If I were you I'd wait a little bit longer before going to 4.14 give them a chance to hopefully get some of the new features working on mac and iron out some of the bugs.

    Post edited by Dreams of Reality on
  • leemoon_c43b45a114leemoon_c43b45a114 Posts: 868
    Dreams of Reality said:
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

    The MacBook arrived yesterday and it had Catalina installed as expected.  DS 4.12 runs great on it.  Not sure if I have the courage to jump it to 4.14 just yet. LOL.

     

    from what I have figured out by the first few posts of this thread 4.14 isnt meant to work on mac yet. I had it before I upgraded to Big Sur and it worked fine, but it had none of the new features so it wasn't worth the time it took to upgrade. Just saying. If I were you I'd wait a little bit longer before going to 4.14 give them a chance to hopefully get some of the new features working on mac and iron out some of the bugs.

    Thanks for the info, Dreams of Reality! Yep, I'm sure I'll stick with 4.12 for a while until 4.14 matures a bit more.

    I truly appreciate the feedback. :)

    Lee

  • Dreams of RealityDreams of Reality Posts: 11
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:
    Dreams of Reality said:
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

    The MacBook arrived yesterday and it had Catalina installed as expected.  DS 4.12 runs great on it.  Not sure if I have the courage to jump it to 4.14 just yet. LOL.

     

    from what I have figured out by the first few posts of this thread 4.14 isnt meant to work on mac yet. I had it before I upgraded to Big Sur and it worked fine, but it had none of the new features so it wasn't worth the time it took to upgrade. Just saying. If I were you I'd wait a little bit longer before going to 4.14 give them a chance to hopefully get some of the new features working on mac and iron out some of the bugs.

    Thanks for the info, Dreams of Reality! Yep, I'm sure I'll stick with 4.12 for a while until 4.14 matures a bit more.

    I truly appreciate the feedback. :)

    Lee

    My pleasure Lee. I'm slowly learning that you need to be slow with upgrades... (I like to get upgrades) I don't know if you use public build, but it's a great way to test things out before updating your main DAZ. So if something goes wackaboo at leasts its not as big a loss. You loose one of two instead of one of one if you know what I mean? You can have both on one machine. That's what I used to do. 

  • leemoon_c43b45a114leemoon_c43b45a114 Posts: 868
    Dreams of Reality said:
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:
    Dreams of Reality said:
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

    The MacBook arrived yesterday and it had Catalina installed as expected.  DS 4.12 runs great on it.  Not sure if I have the courage to jump it to 4.14 just yet. LOL.

     

    from what I have figured out by the first few posts of this thread 4.14 isnt meant to work on mac yet. I had it before I upgraded to Big Sur and it worked fine, but it had none of the new features so it wasn't worth the time it took to upgrade. Just saying. If I were you I'd wait a little bit longer before going to 4.14 give them a chance to hopefully get some of the new features working on mac and iron out some of the bugs.

    Thanks for the info, Dreams of Reality! Yep, I'm sure I'll stick with 4.12 for a while until 4.14 matures a bit more.

    I truly appreciate the feedback. :)

    Lee

    My pleasure Lee. I'm slowly learning that you need to be slow with upgrades... (I like to get upgrades) I don't know if you use public build, but it's a great way to test things out before updating your main DAZ. So if something goes wackaboo at leasts its not as big a loss. You loose one of two instead of one of one if you know what I mean? You can have both on one machine. That's what I used to do. 

    I'm still running 4.12.0.86 on the Mac Mini and now the MacBook Pro.  I think my 12" Retina MacBook is on 4.12.0.1xx-something.  After decades of work in software engineering and being a Mac owner for almost the same length of time, I've learned to not be the first one in the boat.  At least not without a life jacket. LOL!

    Thanks so much for the advice on running a public build while also keeping a stable release build.  I might just try that out when things like Filament for Mac start appearing in the public builds. :)

    Lee

  • Dreams of RealityDreams of Reality Posts: 11
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:
    Dreams of Reality said:
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:
    Dreams of Reality said:
    leemoon_c43b45a114 said:

    The MacBook arrived yesterday and it had Catalina installed as expected.  DS 4.12 runs great on it.  Not sure if I have the courage to jump it to 4.14 just yet. LOL.

     

    from what I have figured out by the first few posts of this thread 4.14 isnt meant to work on mac yet. I had it before I upgraded to Big Sur and it worked fine, but it had none of the new features so it wasn't worth the time it took to upgrade. Just saying. If I were you I'd wait a little bit longer before going to 4.14 give them a chance to hopefully get some of the new features working on mac and iron out some of the bugs.

    Thanks for the info, Dreams of Reality! Yep, I'm sure I'll stick with 4.12 for a while until 4.14 matures a bit more.

    I truly appreciate the feedback. :)

    Lee

    My pleasure Lee. I'm slowly learning that you need to be slow with upgrades... (I like to get upgrades) I don't know if you use public build, but it's a great way to test things out before updating your main DAZ. So if something goes wackaboo at leasts its not as big a loss. You loose one of two instead of one of one if you know what I mean? You can have both on one machine. That's what I used to do. 

    I'm still running 4.12.0.86 on the Mac Mini and now the MacBook Pro.  I think my 12" Retina MacBook is on 4.12.0.1xx-something.  After decades of work in software engineering and being a Mac owner for almost the same length of time, I've learned to not be the first one in the boat.  At least not without a life jacket. LOL!

    Thanks so much for the advice on running a public build while also keeping a stable release build.  I might just try that out when things like Filament for Mac start appearing in the public builds. :)

    Lee

    I know right? A life jacket is totally needed when being the first in a boat lol! Though will that actualy save you from being burnt? lol. (I'm sorry I have quirky humour and this thread needed a little laugh)... 

    enjoy!

  • jayjarrettjayjarrett Posts: 27

    How are you guys even using a mac? Don't the long render times and the lack of GPU rendering drive you crazy? I have an external GPU for my 2018 mac pro and Daz won't use it. I built a $2100  windows machine and I cannot believe I did it sooner. The depth of the renders and the speed is astonishing.

  • TBorNotTBorNot Posts: 370

    Reviews of the new Mac mini are coming in, and it's time to stop development of the Mac Intel platform and focus on the M1 version.  I think by next month, the last Intel processor will roll out of Apple.  It's that good.

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,855
    TBorNot said:
    Ascania said:

    What has one to do with the other? ARM designs microprocessor cores

    Because NVidea makes graphics cards and they are also irritated with Intel's lack of CPU ability, just as much as Apple.

    NVidia also already make ARM core SoC with thier ownGPU integrated with the Tegra line. That still doesn't mean that them owning ARM Ltd. forces NVidia graphics solutions on their licensees.

  • fernandomorganfernandomorgan Posts: 7

    Sigh. Well I need to update to BigSur soon, so that means no more Daz for me. Inredibly disappointing. 

  • Leo ChenLeo Chen Posts: 697

    Just upgrade MacOS to MacOS Big Sur,
    then I can not launch both DAZ Studio and DAZ3DIM!!!!！！！

  • chuckstudio_727c5334a7chuckstudio_727c5334a7 Posts: 0

    Well - this sucks. I just updated to Big Sur - which works fine with my other 3D tools (MODO, Blender, ZBRUSH) - and just when I need DAZ to work it crashes. If you are not going to use Mac as a viable platform - just say so.  Poser will be available in mid December. 

    Mac is releasing new chip sets that blow a lot of current CPUs out of the water - So I don't understand why Daz would want to ignore this? 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,260
    chuckstudio_727c5334a7 said:

    Well - this sucks. I just updated to Big Sur - which works fine with my other 3D tools (MODO, Blender, ZBRUSH) - and just when I need DAZ to work it crashes. If you are not going to use Mac as a viable platform - just say so.  Poser will be available in mid December. 

    Mac is releasing new chip sets that blow a lot of current CPUs out of the water - So I don't understand why Daz would want to ignore this? 

    They were reluctant to break plug-ins across the board, for both Mac and Windows users. But see the post stickied at the top of this forum https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/451486/daz-studio-macos-big-sur-compatibility#latest

  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,538
    Richard Haseltine said:
    bytescapes said:
    Fixmypcmike said:

    The issue is balancing compatibility with Big Sur against compatibility with older versions.  Daz can estimate from customer service tickets which versions of MacOSX are being used, and must decide whether supporting Big Sur is worth dropping support for older versions.

    There's a catch here, which is that if Studio users decide not to upgrade to Big Sur because it isn't compatible with DAZ Studio, DAZ will just say "Ah, no one's using Big Sur, we don't need to support it." But many Mac users will still have a real interest in using Big Sur.

    Richard suggests that this is a consequence of Apple's spat with Nvidia and that Iray is the root problem -- which is certainly what I'd have assumed -- but other posts in the thread seem to imply that it's a different issue. Interesting. Although I imagine that even if it's not Iray this time around, there'll be trouble in future on the new M1 Macs. I can't imagine that CPU rendering -- which seems to rely on code generated dynamically for Intel CPUs -- will run smoothly or quickly under real-time transpilation for an ARM architecture. That just sounds like a recipe for pain.

    No i didn't - I was adderssing a different aspect of the post I was replying to when I mentioned Iray. The issue with Big sur, as I understand it, is that making the changes needed to produce a version of DS compatible with the new version will break the existing SDK, requiring developers to recompile their plug-ins for both mac and Windows (and since some developers have left or dies, leaving some plug-ins inoperative for all users).

    So basically, getting it to work will take the sort of major changes that will result in the new version number being 5.0?

  • dcmaiadcmaia Posts: 13

    Has anyone tried using the Win version of Daz on a Mac using CrossOver? I might give that a try. 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,260
    murgatroyd314 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    bytescapes said:
    Fixmypcmike said:

    The issue is balancing compatibility with Big Sur against compatibility with older versions.  Daz can estimate from customer service tickets which versions of MacOSX are being used, and must decide whether supporting Big Sur is worth dropping support for older versions.

    There's a catch here, which is that if Studio users decide not to upgrade to Big Sur because it isn't compatible with DAZ Studio, DAZ will just say "Ah, no one's using Big Sur, we don't need to support it." But many Mac users will still have a real interest in using Big Sur.

    Richard suggests that this is a consequence of Apple's spat with Nvidia and that Iray is the root problem -- which is certainly what I'd have assumed -- but other posts in the thread seem to imply that it's a different issue. Interesting. Although I imagine that even if it's not Iray this time around, there'll be trouble in future on the new M1 Macs. I can't imagine that CPU rendering -- which seems to rely on code generated dynamically for Intel CPUs -- will run smoothly or quickly under real-time transpilation for an ARM architecture. That just sounds like a recipe for pain.

    No i didn't - I was adderssing a different aspect of the post I was replying to when I mentioned Iray. The issue with Big sur, as I understand it, is that making the changes needed to produce a version of DS compatible with the new version will break the existing SDK, requiring developers to recompile their plug-ins for both mac and Windows (and since some developers have left or dies, leaving some plug-ins inoperative for all users).

    So basically, getting it to work will take the sort of major changes that will result in the new version number being 5.0?

    That would be up to Daz, but I wouldn't be greatly surprised.

  • arsmoriendimegaarsmoriendimega Posts: 11

    Literally just bought a new iMac Pro partially to run Daz...

  • mereasnermereasner Posts: 31

    I just updated to Big Sur and updated DAZ and now DIM and DAZ Studio crash.  Is there anyway around this?  I cannot seem to go back to High Sierra even using the Command + R function (only offered to reinstall Big Sur) and I don't know how to find the old version of DAZ and install it.  I have sunk alot of cash into DAZ products and now I cannot do anything with them.  Why allow people to upgrade the DAZ on mac without a warning?  What a freaking mess.

  • leemoon_c43b45a114leemoon_c43b45a114 Posts: 868

    mereasner, you might be able to get back to an earlier version than Big Sur.

    Here's an Apple Support article, look at the section "Other macOS Installation Options."  They mention shift-option-command-r to restore the version of macOS that came with your Mac.  Perhaps there's some helpful info in that article?

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904

    Lee

  • mosjeschwartzmanmosjeschwartzman Posts: 29

    dcmaia said:

    Has anyone tried using the Win version of Daz on a Mac using CrossOver? I might give that a try. 

    Yup, it works nicely. However, Dforce will not work as it doesn't have any 'opencl cores' to work with and I can't filament to work properly. Other than that it works fine. Even Iray CPU rendering works nicely and reasonably fast.

  • kristofgiberkristofgiber Posts: 0

    Finding an awesome looking character creator software that finally provides a 'Mac version' just to see it crashing upon launch... So predictable.

  • wingedpower_c2fa7dd694wingedpower_c2fa7dd694 Posts: 0

    Just redownloaded DAZ to make use of my purchases... and found that it doesn't run. WTH? 

    I checked DAZ's solution... which is: install and run Windows.

    That is _NOT_ a solution.

    Seriously... wth?

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