Do Venders UVMaps half to be stacked ?
RorrKonn
Posts: 509
I'm doing a tutorial on making hard edge content. The UV Maps are stacked on top of each other.
I never like this method. So I was wondering do vender half to stack UVMaps ?
Thanks
truckUVs3.jpg
1000 x 616 - 193K
Post edited by RorrKonn on
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Because if the maps weren't stacked, each material would have to be mapped to a tiny size to fit them all in one space. Then the texture would need to be huge to make up the difference (it still probably wouldn't be good enough).
The reason for stacking is to maximise the space for every single material.
Stacked UVs is common, its the older method that all 3D programs support. To view the seperate UVs you need to select the different parts of the model.
I agree not to put every thing on a single map. But can I have 10 different uvmaps and leave them alone and not stack them ?
See MattyManx's comment above - you need to select an individual part/material-zone to see just the uv-map for that part.
I"m not clear. Is the OP following a tutorial or trying to make one?
https://www.daz3d.com/creating-content-for-daz-studio
OK.I have a Yes or No ? question.
I have a blue truck with 10 different peaces and 10 different UVMaps.and all the UVMaps are stacked.
and.
I have a red truck with 10 different peaces and 10 different UVMaps.The UVMaps are not stacked.
Will DAZ Sell the Red Truck ? Yes or No ?
The best way to get an answer to that is by following the steps outlined in the link below. You're not going to get an answer on the forums. My guess is that how the materials are set up are going to be pretty far down the list of criteria they'll apply in deciding.
https://www.daz3d.com/community/community-publishing
Honestly, I would think they wouldn't care how it's set up, as long as it looks good and works properly. But yeah, sevrin has the right idea, better to talk to the source I think.
If you select the complete model with all the materials, the combined UV-map looks like a mess, but you need to understand that what you are looking, is the combined result of tens of transparent layers of "blueprints" - Choose just one material and you see the "blueprint" (UV map) for that material only.
You need to understand that if the UV-maps were not "stacked" as you call it, the size of the textures and how much they will consume resources would skyrocket when the different materials are using separate texture/map files.
For example... If you had a cube with 6 sides, each side having a different picture - You can make your UV maps to fill the UV space so that each side uses 1/6th of the available 0,0 to 1,1 "square" and use one texture-file for all pictures, all is well and it looks neat and tidy when looking at the UV map.
Now... For some reason, you changed you mind and made six separate texture files, one for each side... Each texture file now has 5/6th of their area used for nothing but waste of space and resources, which is quickly accumulated if you start using maps like normal map and bump map in the materials
If you are going to use separate texture files and maps for the materials, it is far better to create one UV map for each of the materials, but when you select all the materials, they do appear to be "stacked".
But it does matter... Having hundreds of textures and maps created for a model at 8k, where just a fraction of those textures and maps are actually utilized due to poor UV mapping, can bring even the mightiest of computers down to it's knees, when the same model with better UV mapping would look just as good but would not strain even a weaker computer.
OK
I have a blue truck with 10 different peaces and 10 different UVMaps.with 10 diffrent textures .and all the UVMaps are stacked.
and.
I have a red truck with 10 different peaces and 10 different UVMaps.with 10 diffrent textures .The UVMaps are not stacked.
As far as I can tell there both be the same file size.help me understand how stacking the UVMaps changes the file size ?
Thanks
If the file sizes are the same, the resolution of the textures on the one with no "stacking" will be much lower, if the quality of the model is the same the one with no "stacked" UV:s will need textures many times larger than the one where UV:s are "stacked"
Maybe this will explain the problem;
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/427316/uv-map-and-material-optimizer
Not hundreds. Ten. And it's not like Daz is above selling products that "bring the mightiest of computers down to its knees". Anyway, ten is not "hundreds".
assuming the uv's are the same size with the only difference being they are offset then the resource use would be the same,
that's called UDIM mapping.
https://area.autodesk.com/dynamic_resources/area_learning_tutorials/1163/content/131505525810.jpg
Ten?... Where did that come from? There are no limits to number of textures/maps for a model, the most I have seen has been 1000+
Edit: Ok, you were talking about the example... Even then, the number is not ten if the materials have normal maps, bump maps, metallicity maps, whatever else maps...
What Stefan said. To export an obj with UDIM intact from DS you have to untick Collapse UV Tiles in the export menu.
They are both EXACTLY THE SAME. The only difference is in what YOU are doing.
In the first case you are looking at them ALL AT ONCE. In the second case you decided to separate them and look at them separately.
Please excuse the following dumb question...
I thought "UV stacking" (it doesn't seem to be an official term) was only to save texture space when you had multiple details that were exactly the same... for example a building with dozens of windows that were exactly the same... you stack the windows on top of each other so they share the same exact texture...
The OP's image looks like tires are stacked on top of various other details like body sections etc... unless the stacked parts are the exact same texture, which it doesn't seem like... wouldn't that result in a messed up texture... like say tire texture on the red door, or red body color on a tire... that's over simplifying, but I thought that's the deal...
Or... is perhaps the model just "painted" with simple colors (by that I mean black, red, gray... no actual "texture", just pure color) ...(it's impossible to see most of the map details, but the tires and a few things stand out)... so for example everything stacked in one area is black... stuff in a different section is red... etc...
With something like the truck you can't have bump maps because stuff will get weird... but where parts are exactly the same like the building's windows a bump map would work properly... right?
I'm clarifying this for my own understanding, as I've never seen in any tutorial any suggestion to stack parts/detail/island... unless it was exactly the same detail/part/island repeated.
Or is this something more complicated like texture atlasing?
are you by chance refereing to UV islands as UV maps?
It's confusing, but not quite the same thing. The difference is between stacking the materials and stacking the uvs. If you want the same texture on every window, you put all window uvs in the same place But the stacking the OP is talking about would still be used.
.OBJ does not do stacked UVMaps . .FBX works
You could make UVMap stacks for all the windows and it would work but since there all the same you don't need to.
All you need is one UVMap and one Texture and use those for all the windows.
when you break you model up into UV islands are they still one surface or multiple sufaces?
if they are one surface they need to be atlassed which means they cannot overlap and will fit on one map
if they are all different surfaces they can each be expanded to use as much real-estate on the UV tile as you can, to maximise texture resolution
those then need to be stacked overlapping
Okay, that explains it...
Sorta..
In general I think of the UV map as the single layer image (png, tiff or jpeg) that the UV coordinates use to place the texture onto the model...
So with the hypothetical windows, they are all using (let's say for example) the same area of the image... say the left corner with a worn wood texture...
That makes sense...
Is the stacking that is being referred to using several different UV maps? By that I mean several different separate images... in essence it's acting like a texture atlas?
If not, I don't get the purpose, or something in my use of the terminology is off...
What do you mean? Both stacking as initally mentioned here (different parts iof a single model mapped so each takes up most of the unit square) and as later redefined (multiple repeats of the same mesh each overlapping the mapping of the rest) are supported in OBJ. So are UDIMs (like the first type of stacking, but with each group offset along the U axis) if the mdoel is mapped that way and, on exporting, Collapse UVs is unchecked.
Nope -- That does not explain it...
OBJ can, and as always has been able to create and use stacked UV maps.
Content creation/usage is a concert of multiple parts that need to come together for everything to work as expected.
Creating the individual UV maps that will all share the same UV space that becomes the stacked maps is just one part of the process -- UV map assignment is just as important, otherwise you might believe it doesn't do it, or doesn't work.
And, as others have pointed out, UV maps, whether stacked or UDIM are not the same as UV islands and overlapping UV islands -- But, all UV maps must have assignment with all facets/polygons via MAT designations.
Look at Daz3D's own Victoria 4 for instance -- You will see that every stacked UV is assigned to a different MAT designation - i.e. Body_1, Head_2, Arms_Legs_3, etc. (not correct naming - just example). The important part is the _1, _2, _3 -- That is telling you those are the individual UV maps, and the assigned UV islands reside on those UV maps within the UV space
Those are the individual UV maps that are stacked, but assigned to different parts of the mesh.
@RorrKonn : As Stonemason has pointed out, you probably want to create your content with UDIM UV mapping which basically duplicates the UV space in a grid so you can have all your pretty UV maps spread out and do not share the same UV space.
If the UVMaps are stacked like this https://www.daz3d.com/creating-content-for-daz-studio .OBJ will not work. At least not in Blender..FBX will work thou.At least in Blender.
Stacked UVMaps = a deck of poker cards stacked.
Not Stacked UVMaps = a deck of poker cards lined up to where you can see all 52 cards.
Richard ninja'd me...
Yes, what he said...
@RorrKonn (apologies for the mispell in last post - corrected) :
What issue are you having with the OBJ not showing proper stacked UV maps inside of Blender?
In order to see each individual map, you need to select the MAT (material) designation. So, while in Edit Mode, use the MAT Properties Tab and select the materials on the mesh that correspond to the singular UV map you wish to view/use.
That will eliminate the spaghetti mess of all stacked maps viewing at once.
You can even assign each stacked map to a new individual map in Blender to work, and then recombine them all back to one stacked UV map if you wish.