The Doors [A Rant...Sort of]
shg0816_13461e8196
Posts: 315
Admins, feel free to move this to the appropriate area if the commons isn't the right place.
To start, another post regarding the French Quarter series brought this post about. While I think the series is great, and could use them in a Lovecraftian Horror story, I can't because none of the doors open.
Can I make a plea to artists...
When creating large scale environments, can we have at least SOME doors that open? Not all the doors need to open, but in the case of the French Quarter series, the doors to the buildings on the corner would be great if they opened/closed. Also, in the case of the French Quarter series, I have seen what look like could be passageways to other hidden areas having those doors open/close would be helpful.
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Comments
Let me expand this somewhat. I don't expect every door and every window to open but most should. I buy an environment to tell stories in. Those stories are much harder to tell if the environment is static.
One could always tell a story about ghosts. Unopened doors would be no problem.
Yes I agree. I've had to add my own opening doors to several sets and it's very time consuming and finicky. I'd just be happy if PAs let us know if their doors open or not.
^OK, my doors always open :) (though there's often nothing behind them as that would lead to an endless feature creep).
But if doors don't open, just show the pre-and-post (e.g. 'hand on doorknob' pose in one shot - 'inside the building' on the next)
use the geometry editor
I don't own them but might buy them one day because they look so cool, just not something I have any reason to render, I have yet to find a set I cannot rip apart in Carrara
and rig
This tool will only let you create new surfaces, but it can be used to make existing doors invisible to put in new doors, which is how I use it. Lots of sets come with moving doors which can be separated (unparented) and saved as a scene asset, then worked into position. That's how I solve the problem of non-opening doors anyway.... a tiresome process but works for me.
I 'solved' this in the update of Corridors I'm doing. The basic corridor prop is 600cm long and there are a lot of different ones - 4 door openings. 2 door openings. no openings, etc. Plus single walls, blank or with door openings, crossroads, T-junctions..... and they all fit together. You get the idea.
In amongst this, there are 3 door figures - each one has 4 doors and they fit any corridor unit. And each door can be switched off/on or moved to be used in a totally different environment. The 3 types are Wood, Office, and Glass. On top of that, these same 3 types, plus a pushbar door come as single props.
In the image, you can see Office doors along the corridor and an emergency exit at the back. (That pushbar door is in the figure, but also included as a prop)
Of course, it's only a partial solution because if you want sci-fi doors, I can't help you.
I'm buying them (eventually) and it's a nice to know the doors & windows don't open. I'll still buy them even without the working doors & windows but edit them to have working doors and windows.
Also, what Silent Winter says - having a doorknob turn is often a cue to switch from one level of a game to another via 'teleporting' but if you're doing plain old animation you have more reason to want opening doors and windows. Stories that have door locks picked? Stories that have doors busted door. Stories of someone entering through a plainly visible door. Stories of someone climbing in or out through a window.
I know I'll have to supply furniture, I'll have to research what style(s) though.
I tend to not buy something if important features don't do what they should.
Doors and windows opening are what I would call an important feature. Sure there may be some that dont, where there are a lot, but even then, I would balk at that.
If the features don't work, well then I might wait until it's 1.99, if I bother at all.
... Products make most of their cash when new I understand, so it seems to me that encouraging folks to buy it when new is the way to go.
I understand that the cost goes up as features are added. But chance of sales go up as features are added.
Also, in the description of the product, can the artists include something like "doors open" or "no opening doors". How hard would that be, that way the buyer KNOWS up front and won't have to ask in a forum.
Have to agree. The problem is, there are many interior environments, many exterior environments, but relatively few environments provide both. If at least doors and windows can open and close (and also, the glass of windows have their own material zones, so we can make them transparent instead of the usual painted interior or full reflection), then people can at least kitbash their own interior into an exterior asset. It adds a lot of versatility to an exterior, if some figure can simply walk out a door or wave from behind a window.
Interior walls aren't difficult to add to an exterior, a couple of primitives suffice (I'd even prefer that over a premade interior, if the set is mostly about the exterior anyway, so no need to draw a whole floorplan with rooms and stairs and whatnot). It's the exterior walls that need to allow that opportunity. Just make doors and windows functional, and leave the interior empty. I'm not saying I have no use for the full interior+exterior products, I love those. But if it's just about the exterior, then at least allow for the user to easily add an interior him- or herself.
Agreed. Sometimes there's a product, or I have an interior in mind that would go with that product, so having a functional door is important. Same with the windows, if they have their own material zone, I don't mind swapping out materials, but when there is only one material zone for the entire product, it's not helpful.
Just out of curiosity: How much extra time does it take you to model and rig a door that opens vs a door and frame that are merely decorative?
Time wise I don't know, but it requires some planning as the zines for the frame and door need to exist to enable easier creation. It is time-consuming, and off-hand I can't think of a way that avoids doing each one seperately.
I look forward to hearing maclean's reply.
There is some extra work involved in the modeling stage. If the door opens then there needs to be hinges, one half on the door and a second half on the door frame. There also needs to be the lock set details on the other edge of the door as well as a strike plate on the door frame. One way around this is to model the bits once and save the model as a resource that you can load into a new project as needed.
without owning any of them I cannot sayhow hard it is
but if not welded
it looks as if you can select doors only with the geometry editor
if so convert to figure if not one then add child bones moving the tip of bone to door pivot for each
select each door faces with geometry editor and fill by weight 100%
THIS. This is exactly how movies are shot. Interiors are often in a whole other location from exteriors. Sometimes exteriors are just establishing shots using stock footage. If there’s no interior to a set, it seems pointless to have opening doors unless you are planning on putting another room behind it, but it seems you could just start the next scene looking through any prop door into the interior set if you really need a shot through a door, otherwise just cut to the interior like they do in movies..
If you really want to tell great stories, I’d recommend googling movies that won Oscars for best editing, and get ideas from them. Not every detail is needed to move a story along....
It's funny, I have the same issue with cars.... Cars with doors that don't open, and no trunk open option....
Where am I supposed to hide the bodies?
JD
NO! That is not how movies are shot. At least not how good movies are shot. People walk through doors all the time. People lean out windows too. I don't need the entire set beyond for that to work. A single plane primtive is usually enough.
However I can also show you where entire houses were setup so shots could be carried through from the front door through to the back door. I can also show you where Hollywood built entire Western towns on backlots with full interiors not so they could film in the interiors but so the exterior shots looked right.
Fair point, but I wonder how many of those western towns went for USD 29.95 before discounts.
What's shown in the promos is what we get. Nothing else was delivered, but nothing else was promised, either.
I was walking down the street. all of a sudden a pack of wild dogs started chasing me. I ran to the nearest door. IT DIDN'T OPEN !!! ... I ran to the next, IT DIDN'T OPEN !!! ... I ran to the next, IT DIDN'T OPEN !!!
The dogs jumped on me and began ripping apart my clothes, trying to get to flesh. I was screaming .... Then I realized I was trying to create a scene in DAZ Studio.
The dogs obviously should have come with doors that open.
I can't answer that, because I've never made an unrigged door. All my sets have doors that open. Many of them have been multi-part props and not figures, but the work is mostly the same - hinges, locks, etc. I can tell you you that figures are more of a nuisance, with rigging and what-not, especially since DAZ switched to the full figure morph system, but I reckon there could be a fair amount of work on both sides.
One of the main things in any set is the planning, and definitely if you're going modular. That requires a great deal of thought, and measurements to see how the pieces will fit together,.
...that's what I like about Collective3D's houses, as most can be used for both indoor and outdoor scenes.
No, they should have gotten lo-rez dogs without mouths that open.
...I've done that with several sets where doors are their own mesh.
Those Western towns were actually really things and weren't sold to multiple people.
But the argument that PA's can't do the work for the price fails because some PA's do it.
As to the promos showing when doors/windows open and when props are actually independent props and not just part of of the environment I'm all for it but PA's don't do it consistently even when they have done the work.