About 3Delight
mightguy15
Posts: 56
in The Commons
I recently started using 3delight to make some really good renders for a webcomic series I'm working on. I've heard that daz might one day stop support for 3delight, is this true?
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Speaking as a 3DL user...as far as I know they've given up on it years ago. Thankfully they can't uninstall what I have:))
Here's a 3DL support discussion: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/436317/the-3dl-support-by-daz#latest
...and another one: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/227911/is-daz3d-going-to-phase-out-3delight#latest
3DL is still a very valid render engine. Quite a few PAs still support 3DL, but many more don't. There is a huge back catalogue to explore but you may want to have a buying strategy where you only buy what you need at the time, instead of buying things because you might need them some day. That way, even if 3DL becomes unusable at some point, you'll not have too much cash. I use 3DL because I do't want photo-realism and, also, my old computer can't really cope with Iray but I do still use Iray products, using RSSY's converter and tweaking a few settings and get pretty good results. I have, but haven't seriously used, OSO's comic shaders for Iray, and that may be another option for you. And then there's Filament, a 'beta' installation of an NPR different render engine that people seem to be finding very fast, much less restrictive than Iray (it's not GPU dependent but with a few issues (as you would expect from a beta). I'd also mention IBL Master, which enables you to use Iray HDRIs in 3 DL.
Oops, Freudian slip - I meant to say 'you'll not have wasted too much cash'. Not having too much cash is the default for most of us who buy things because we might need them some day
I use 3DL and Iray but my computer struggles a lot with Iray. I use DIM to install Studio and it's updates but I also do a manual download of the Studio installer and keep it backed up on a USB hard drive. That way if Daz ever drop 3DL I will have an installer for a version that does support it. I don't think Studio needs any sort of online activation so I think that as long as I keep a copy of the installer and my activation key I should be able to keep using a 3DL verision of Daz Studio even if Daz abandion it. Remember, Daz don't allow you to download old versions of Studio so you should keep a backup of any version you want to keep.
...Sven thanks, when I saw this thread I was about to link to those myself.
Yeah the latest Daz Beta has the new filament engine, but I feel I have enough on my plate with AweSurface, Iray, and Blender (for modelling) on top of still rebuilding after the drive crash to devote time to understanding a whole new rendering tech and shader/material system. Also, it still relies on a GPU for best performance whereas 3D doesn't.
I suppose this depends on what the OP means by "stop support". Given that a large portion of back catalog items are 3DL items, and that Daz really shouldn't incur major costs to keep including an older render engine, I'd be surprised if 3Delight isn't included in Daz Studio for the foreseeable future, but I don't know the details of Daz's relationship with Illumination Research (3Delight's developer).
This! I have several backups of DS 4.7 (with 3Delight v11) and it's installed and working fine on an old 2007 Macbook. I mainly use DS 4.9, which has the 3Delight v12, and will not upgrade unless DAZ suddenly decide to introduce 3Delight v13:)) The DS Beta is always there if you want to test the new DS features. But...being a Mac user...most new stuff seems to be PC only, like the Filament renderer, so I see no need for upgrading my current 4.10 Beta atm. It has dForce if I need it;)
And, as I said somewhere else, the last resource is the Wayback machine:) The latest available 3Delight standalone is slightly newer than the latest DS version, and...surprise...I have it
Never occurred to me to use 3DL stand alone. Is there a thread on that somewhere? Is it simple to submit a scene file to it?
I have only tested it briefly so no expert. It's not as straight forward as using it from inside DS, there is no UI, basically you render your scene to .rib, which will typically take a few seconds, and (on the Mac) open terminal and type in a line or two so 3DL can find the RIB file. It then renders in the background. Don't know how to do it on Windows, but the package comes with a complete installer, render examples and a complete 281 pages manual:) And I think it renders a tad faster than from inside DS.
I know several users here that use the standalone so you can ask if you run into trouble.
Am mistaken or, wasn't there an even older rendering engine before 3Delight? I seem to remember a period of time when forumites were kvetching about having to adapt to this new fangled 3Delight stuff.
No, 3Delight was the original DS render engine.
probably Poser users
...Poser's original render engine is Firefly. They now also have "Superfly" which is based on Cycles.
I am sure I read somewhere that they had another one before Firefly.
Yes, Firefly was added in Poser 5 IIRC, P4 had another engine.
I love 3dl & still use it fairly a lot. I wish daz would have continued with its updates. One thing I do like about Poser 11.3 render is they have sketch render built in which si great for grid & vector art , Firefly and Superfly also have built in motion blur you can set up for Animation. I love that poser can use MP4 video as background and can be used as a 1st stage video editor. I just do not find superfly animation renders as appealing as Iray not as crisp and clean..
I have no interest at this time to use filament It maybe quick for rendering But it is still to limiting on shader and emissive and a few other thing, from the post i have read & it did just come out in beta. So I'll hold off a bit, maybe later in the future after its got the bugs worked out. I may mess around with it .So I am not trying to be discouraging about filament I just have no interest in it at the moment..
Yes, before Firefly they had one that was just called the Poser 4 Renderer. I don't think this was a third party one, it was made by the Poser developers. For a while you could still select Poser 4 renderer or Firefly, I don't remember which version dropped it. It was an OK renderer for it's time but it would be considered pretty crude today.
...yeah did a bit of quick reserach and there was no particular name given to it.
Ah, yes! I started with Poser 4. That explains my confusion. Memories and impressions get all scrambled up when time is measured in decades.
3Delight is still very capable, and very powerful. You can get great results by using the Uber content that comes with Studio. You won't achieve full-on 100% photo realism because it isn't PBR-based, but with the right settings you can get pretty close. What I find odd, is the insistence of a bunch of modern Studio users touting Iray as the best thing since sliced bread. Iray really isn't meant for the kind of production the typical Studio user produces. It's better suited for scientific renders and product presentation. Octane, Cycles, and even Eevee and LuxRender are better suited for artwork like ours.
It wouldn't make sense for Studio to drop the 3Delight engine. But if it were dropped, I have copies of Studio dating back to its very first versions, well before 2.0. And I refuse to drop 3Delight, considering that I have invested somewhere around 10k dollars worth of content that is 3Delight-friendly. Including V4. I have attached a recent render that I actually won an award for; the first art award I have ever received. And I have been using Studio since late 2006. Aside from the obvious vignetting and fake DoF that I did in GIMP, the render was done entirely in 3Delight with Uber lights and Uber shaders.
If anyone is concerned about DAZ dropping support for 3Delight, keep previous versions of the software. I always install Studio via a manual download, and keep install folders of previous versions in case an update goes belly-up. Studio will run on a modern Windows machine straight from a folder, no installation needed. DAZ loves to overwrite things, so make sure that your previous versions are backed up and make sure you change the name of the folder. You'll get a clean install of the latest, then be able to copy that install folder to somewhere else. I always keep three versions of the software ready to run.
...I've saved installers all the way back to version 1.8
I didn't know enough to save installers, so now I just don't upgrade :-) Much as I sometimes want those strand hairs, I need my functionality of everything else more. :-)
Being the bit-hoarder that I am, I have almost all versions of DAZ Studio back to "Alpha 0.8.16.1", "Beta 0.9.0.0", and the official 1.0 By comparison with today, they were truly awful.
Perhaps I should dust off one of my old WinXP machines and install the Alpha just to remind myself of what it was like working with stone knives and bearskins.
I remember bitterly ranting about the Alphas and that the Beta versions shouldn't even be declared worthy of being classed as Alpha.
...yeah I didn't get into this until November of 2007 which was when 1.8 came out.
Actually re-installed it a while back just for fun. Works in W7.
I was going to say, do those old installers even work now? lol In an old folder I had ported over from my old computer I found a very old installer of Daz Studio that I must have downloaded many years ago but just never got around to trying it. I installed it and it looked SO FUNNY! That interface is SO DIFFERENT. I went to render and it immediately crashed. I relaunched it and tried a few times but I never could get it to render and it would only just crash instantly if I tried. lol I'm guessing it's just not compatible with my current computer's specs.
It's not clear just how backwards compatible the older versions of the program are with current operating systems.But even if the program will run, sometimes the installer won't.
I know that the old Bitrock installers that everything used to come packed in stopped working on Macs some time ago. I made a point of decompressing mine all into folders for backup, and it was kind of a race whether I'd manage it before the old computer I was doing it on failed on me.
If that old version was DS3 I'm not surprised it crashed without rendering. I had next to nothing but trouble with DS3.
I don't recall what version it was, after I tried a few times to get it to render but kept getting crashes I just uninstalled and deleted it. It must have been a pretty old version as it was in a folder with some stuff from my old 15 year old computer. I'm kicking myself for deleting it though, as it was kind of cool exploring the interface and checking out the workspace that a lot of the Daz Studio long time users must have worked with (like walking a bit of 3D history lol). I'm always fascinated by the early generation stuff and I get a kick out of like V3/A3 and V4 era stuff.
There's a 3Delight Workshop, in case you are interested, run by DigitalArt Live and presented by Karl Knarr this Sunday (22nd) at 8PM London time: https://digitalartlive.com/event/daz-studio-3delight-2/
It's free, unless you want the recording and whatever materials Mr. Knarr hands out.
...hmm that's noon where I live. Might tune in to that.