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Does DeNoiser have Negative Effects on Rendering to Canvases

evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,465
in Daz Studio Discussion

I have tended to avoid the Denoise in the past as it has not fit my workflow.

Trying it now at higher levels (1,000 iterations or more) and finding that perhaps this does work better.  But...canvases with more "indirect" light seem to lack detail when compared to more directly lit canvases. This does make a sort of sense as the denoiser is being applied to all canvases at the same point and these might not have resolved as fully.  I'm just not sure of what I am seeing.  Can anyone validate this?

Comments

  • skinklizzardskinklizzard Posts: 218

    yea well its not exclusive to with the denoiser, even without it some canvases may be grainy and noisey when all the others look fine.

    you can select which canvas is displayed in the render window and used for convergence though I believe.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,465
    skinklizzard said:

    yea well its not exclusive to with the denoiser, even without it some canvases may be grainy and noisey when all the others look fine.

    you can select which canvas is displayed in the render window and used for convergence though I believe.

    No, you can not choose which canvas is used for convergence, that is simply not an option. And my question is if the denoiser, specifically, may be causing a lack of finished detail as it... polishes away on a lower resolved canvas.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249

    Yes , with 1000 iterations there is not really a point of using denoiser  , and if you really need to use it , use at the end of the rendering iteration , like starting at 950 , if you use it too early , it will never finish the fine details in the light areas  , denoiser not making your render finish faster it actually need double the iterations if started too early. Unless you just need it to see more clear the scene lighting  for references then it is a different talk .

    evilded777 said:
    skinklizzard said:

    my question is if the denoiser, specifically, may be causing a lack of finished detail as it... polishes away on a lower resolved canvas.

     

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,465
    MEC4D said:

    Yes , with 1000 iterations there is not really a point of using denoiser  , and if you really need to use it , use at the end of the rendering iteration , like starting at 950 , if you use it too early , it will never finish the fine details in the light areas  , denoiser not making your render finish faster it actually need double the iterations if started too early. Unless you just need it to see more clear the scene lighting  for references then it is a different talk .

    evilded777 said:
    skinklizzard said:

    my question is if the denoiser, specifically, may be causing a lack of finished detail as it... polishes away on a lower resolved canvas.

     

    Thanks @MEC4D.  I was running for a lot more than a 1,000... I just turned it on at that point.  Experimenting more than anything else.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249

    @evilded777 from my own worflow if a scene can't clean nicely by at last 2000 iterations denoiser is very helpful , and if used at the very end , it don't affect the already good areas, too high or incorrect reflectance settings on surfaces can really throw iray out of the track and produce nasty noises when using indirect light sources , lack of light don't do that as in the case of direct light as I can render completely dark scenes without noises very fast, since tonemapping is completely ignored when rendering using canvases in D|S your LIGHT settings should not really matter as long there is any light source to begin with that can be later edited outside D|S 

    Each scene is different so practice on a small scene resolution before going to final render , practicing and experimenting , the best workflow ! same with photography , outdoors it take 1/125 of a sec to take noises free photo, but indoors it will take 30 an more seconds to get rid of the noises at the same ISO settings depends of the lighting . Now when you use Canvases , it is an HDR photo , it need all informations regarding exposure from all light conditions from the darkest to the brightness , it is like you render 9 renders of the same scene and put them all together in 1 not matter the light conditions of the scene when using Beauty Canvases but then you have the total control of the light exposure in your image editor after. 

    Denoiser is a post processing filter and the purpose of it was to see preview of the lighting conditions in your scene  before rendering the full scene without using it at all. Just to speed up the workflow, a draw mode, concept preview . The original purpose of denoiser...  Some scenes I used with denoiser never finished , it was not noisy but looking like an oil painting no matter how much iterations or rendering quality I set up. But that made me thinking that my image actually finished pretty well and the denoiser was just a bad side effect that can't be fixed, then rendered again without denoiser to find out and  it finished nicely in half of the time that with denoiser , from that moment I use it just at the end of my iteration settings if I really need it and mostly only on Beuty Canvases 

    Good luck !

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