Rigging for A3 using Daz Studio or Poser
3dOutlaw
Posts: 2,479
Working on some shirts for A3, and was wondering about rigging them using Daz Studio (latest version)? I've done a lot of searches, but all the latest rigging stuff seem to focus on Genesis and weight-mapped figures.
I know I can do it in Poser, but prefer not to switch tools, already using Hex, so Daz integrates better.
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You use the Figure Setup pane. The basics are:
Load Aiko 3 and make sure she's selected.
Open the Figure setup pane
From the Figure Setup pane option menu choose Copy from selected figure, select teh poser preset (since it's a figure made for Poser).
Right-click in the Geometry List area and choose Add Geometry, browse to and select your OBJ (which must be grouped) and select teh right preset (if you modelled around the base Aiko 3 OBJ file that will be Poser, if you exported A3 from DS that will be the preset you used).
Drag the clothing OBJ from the Geometry List into the Relationships area - that should replace the A3 mesh with the clothing mesh where it has groups.
Go through the hierarchy in the relationships area, remove unneeded bones (right-click menu) and remove the remaining A3 mesh from any bones you want to keep but which don't have mesh in the clothing (right-click on the geometry - generally you want an empty bone after all the bones that have geometry, and you usually want to keep the hip and any other bones up to the beginning of the clothing). If you need extra bones, for handles or other features, they should have been created when you dragged the OBJ across - you can drag them into place in the hierarchy and right-click to adjust rotation order, welding and so on.
Check the Modify Selected Figure option at bottom left.
Change the name and label at the top of the relationships area by clicking twice.
Click the Create button.
Once you have the new figure you will need to adjust the joint parameters, leaving the centres and rotation orders alone for the base figure bones (they have to match Aiko) using the Joint editor tool and the Tool Settings pane.
Thanks Richard! What's the best way to group my object? I assume you mean matching groups to Aiko3? Any recommendations there? ...or would I have to use poser or blender? Is it possible in Hex?
Also, do you know if its better to model for Aiko3 in her default pose, or the zero pose?
From grouping in Hexagon ... then legacy rigging in D/S ... for clothing or figures so far has been rather disastrous as the welding doesn't weld. However I've found a way with the triax rigging to do something so if maybe that'll work for legacy rigging, many will be happy!
If I recall correctly, model on A3's .obj file from the geometry folder. [use a copy of course]
......................
{I mention this 'cause it says a lot of hair pulling}
Or for a much easier and more fun life for the figures, update them to Genesis. Can get the shapes for A3 etc for Genesis. Model clothing to basic G figure. Will auto-follow the figure for most shapes. And of course one can convert the old clothing to Genesis as well then.
http://www.daz3d.com/a3-and-h3-shapes-for-genesis
OR
http://www.daz3d.com/gen-3-iconic-shapes-for-genesis .
Yes, you'd group in your modeller. Welding shouldn't be an issue as long as the mesh is all one piece, or at least has vertices that line up between pieces that should join, and you set Weld to On in the Figure Setup pane (though I admit I haven't done any of this for a while).
When one groups in Hexagon, the project is one name but all the groups are cut/delete/paste separate groups. In D/S3, suggesting that it weld, it would do so [in the rigging]. In D/S4.x it does not. It's all in pieces!
In working with the MLcat figure in D/S4, trying to triax rig it, had to have a solid mesh, group it in D/S4, and export out that model. Bring into the Figure setup that D/S export and that will accept the triax rigging properly. IF ['cause I haven't tried this yet] this method would also work for the legacy, would be nice ... OR if of course somebody fixed the weld button, that too would be nice ;-)
Can one not use the group editor in DS4 for legacy rigging?
What about AutoGroup - will that work in DS4?
I still have it somewhere on a spare drive, but never re-installed on my new machine.
There is also a pretty long, involved and tedious method for making groups in Hex without cutting it up. You make a shading domain and a material zone for each body part, export the object, open in the free UVMapper Classic and assign each material zone to a group - making sure to get the naming conventions exactly right.
Save the .obj under a new name in your Runtime Geometries. That avoids any welding problems - I haven't used this method in DS4, so can't confirm it will work.
EDIT to add:
Just did some experimentation by making a quick skirt for Aiko 3 in Hex. Patience is correct - using the old method of cutting the mesh up into body parts doesn't work in DS4. Although it shows as welded, it isn't. Doing a "fit to" makes a horrible mangle of the clothing.
The good news is that by converting Aiko to Tri-Ax you can use the transfer utility to fit the clothing and converting to subD and using the smoothing modifier, get a perfect fit and deformation with the figure. Do in seconds what used to take hours - well done Daz :)
So, it seems that if you want to make .cr2 clothing to use in Poser or Carrara, you will have to do this in Poser or revert to DS3.
:-) My preliminary test this morning worked! Not a clothing item, that I'll look at later.
Have some more testing to do before posting workflow.
So far though, the .obj from Hexagon must be "one solid piece", i.e. not grouped.
Grouping can be done in D/S4.
.obj file is then exported from D/S4.
IF the item is not clothing, one can then bring this .obj file into the geometry tab for legacy rigging and do that.
It appeared to accept the groups and did not break apart.
As the workflow for making clothing is more involved, that testing has to wait a bit. If it actually works I'll have pics for the workflow.
Thanks all for looking into this! I am looking forward to what you find for the workflow. (my item is one piece) In the meantime, I am going to try that TriAX Convert method and see how that works out.
Okay ... now, I did not make an actual new clothing item, nor did I look into making bone adjustments and all that. This is just the basic workflow for to get a clothing .obj in through D/S so one can rig it as legacy clothing for a legacy figure.
DA Link
And for those who want to see the images here ...
and some more ...
And some more ...
And a few more ;-)
Almost there ...
And Done!
Hope this helps.
Awesome, I fav'd in DA, thanks!
You're quite welcome ... all the best with your project.
So I was first going to try the TriAx method, to see how that worked (of course, I think that leaves out anyone being able to use it in poser, but...baby steps) I followed Roygee's post, and used this method: Transfer Utility for rigging
So I made a Long Tee for A3 (Yea!, that was an accomplishment for me!) and it worked on an Aiko3 that I had converted to TriAx just fine, as expected.
...then for kicks, I tried to load it on a legacy Aiko3, and it loaded fine as well? I did not expect that? The picture below is the t-shirt on a legacy Aiko3. I guess I fully expected that to fail...now it was so easy I am pondering if I am missing something, or why it works?
Hadn't tried putting triax clothing on legacy figures ... possibly it worked because the bones were all named correctly ... main thing is it has worked! Congrats.
And yes, triax is SO much easier for rigging clothing items. Main thing to remember is to save the item after creating it ;-)
Great tut, Patience - I like your method of setting shading domains in Hex - a lot easier than selecting groups in the geometry editor.
Made a discovery that, for me, was rather starling and I can't explain it. When you select all of the figure in Hex and make a new shading domain, each body part gets it's own shading domain and material zone. Delete the named zones (skin torso, etc.) and rename the numbered ones according to the body parts and you have a manniken which makes it a lot easier to identify the body parts when you make the clothing. Even welding the figure groups into one doesn't destroy the shading domains.
Strange, but very helpful if you are going to make .cr2 clothing.
Great discovery there, 3D Outlaw - I never thought of doing that - works fine and saves having to save the Tri-Axed figure :)
Well the way Hexagon "groups", it doesn't know that all those pieces are part of the same model. Could be a fish, a boat, a car, etc. And we ask it to give each "item" a new Shading Domain. So each "item" gets its own shading domain and material.
btw - for making sets as in rooms, etc. One can do the copy/delete/paste actions in Hexagon to group the item.
Then in D/S go directly to the Figure Setup tools and make the .cr2 as nothing needs to be welded to anything.
Yea, what's nice is you can still use older cr2 clothes mixed with these on a legacy figure. :) Great thread here, thanks again!
Wanted to add an update for purposes of creating clothing.
With the .obj files headed for legacy rigging.
When the creation of "face groups" is "done".
Before exporting out the .obj file to bring over to the figure setup tab ....
Using the same techniques, select the "Shading Domains/Surfaces" ... can select multiple zones ... can select only parts of zones and can then Make a new Shading Domain for them to be assigned to.
Then with the .obj exported out, and brought into the Figure Setup, one can have bones properly named and Shading Domains on the Surfaces Tab that make better sense ;-)