V4 clothing is a nightmare
chapterhawk_276dcefd2e
Posts: 18
Yes, V4. I know. But hear me out. I ran across a V4 character that immediately made me want to try some scenes. I have the character in and running just fine in Daz 4.12, however I spent 30 minutes trying to get a simple set of V4 clothes to fit the character to no avail. I simply couldn't make it fit properly no matter what I did. I assumed it was the clothes, so I tried another and then another and then a dozen others. None of them would work. Literally none of them. If I got it to fit in one area, it would be baggy or under the skin in another area. I spent hours and hours doing this. Then I imagined trying to pose the character and having to refit the clothes every time for hours. What am I missing? Is there some secret to V4 clothing and V4 characters that I am not understanding? How could a character that has thousands of clothes options and thousands of poses that was used by renderer artists for years be this insanely difficult to work with? Any advice would be amazing. Thank you.
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Well for one thing V4 clothes don't adjust to all morphs automatically like Genesis ones do. If the clothes don't include explicit fit morphs for the morphs you used, you need to tell DS to transfer active V4 morphs to the clothes. It's an option in the menu in parameters tab.
Have you tried to add a smoothing modifier to the cloth? (edit>figure>geometry>add smoothing modifier)
V4 cloth generally do not have it and this is what avoids most pokes in recent clothing/characters. You can adapt the iterations number number in the parameter tab.
That was one of the reasons I lost interest in the scene for some years, the clothes did fit with unmorphed V4 standing in the default pose, but once you injected/used some morphs and posed the character... During the years you eventually ran out of ideas, what to do with the figure in her birthsuit...
There are converters that enable using V4 clothing on Genesis 1-8 figures and the result is not bad.
Could be that you are spolied with the current tech we have now with genesis figures and DS, something that was non existant when V4 was out. yeah, autofit tech totally changed the game with fitting content. It was such a PITA with V4 back in the day having to use crossdresser and morphing clothes for just a simgle fit.
I've never used V4/M4 actually but I do own a hoard of their clothing as it's PC+. I usually fit it to Genesis 3 or Genesis 8 characters.
I thought for the morphs that are giving you trouble use those "unimesh" products that are meant to remedy the issue. I've never acutally tried them though, when I buy them it's because they often contain extra textures.
example - https://www.daz3d.com/v4-unimesh-clothing-bundle-2
I know this might sound kinda dumb but it has worked for me on a number of occasions. First pose the model and outfit as close to the desired effect then render. Then render the clothes separately. Render the unclothed figure if necessary. Take into Photoshop and use the puppet warp and layers to finish. I even used this method to "dress" some live models.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/36693146
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/38273471
Are you familiar with Parmy Baddhan Daz3d tutorials on Youtube? Maybe the following free title could help you out:
Create Custom Clothing Morphs in Daz Studio with Blender
Although it is done with a G8 Figure even it wouldn't work, the knowledge certainly may help you in the future.
It's not difficult, but it is arcane, perhaps even slightly byzantine (until you know the process). You want to use the smooth modifier. That will help a lot with poke-through. Combined with judicious scaling, you can resolve bagginess and other fit problems. It's usually best to leave collision iterations at 1 and increase smoothing iterations as needed. Turn interactive update on to see the smoothing effect in real time. Push modifier can also help, but I find it gives strange results in some situations. This is the part where I provide screen shots with arrow diagrams to show you all the buttons to press, but I don't have anything like that ready just now. Other people do. I didn't invent this stuff. I found tuts on DA and youtube. I could provide links, but I don't have those handy, either. Sorry. I'll try to correct that soon.
The ultimate solution involves making a custom morph for the clothing in the desired pose. There are tutorials for doing that on YT; but that's likely way too involved for one-time or casual use.
Edit:
Oh look: There is one in the preceding post! Yes, the process is much the same regardless of figure generation.
I should also point out, V4 has some unpleasant pose problems - Unrealistic interactions between the bones and geometry. I like V4 enough that I bought some corrective packages on Rendo, going from cheap to more expensive. Now my usual V4 starts out as a figure called Perfect V4, and she works beutifully. Naturally, there is no M4 version because only the ladies get the best upgrades.
This sounds a lot like one of my first posts: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/112816/victoria-4-and-poke-through
People gave a lot of helpful tips for me there, you might find some of it helpful as well. :)
Hey I really appreciate all the responses. I took a little of column A and a little bit of column B through Z and found ways to get it to work or at least a good work around. I was happy with the results.
However, I cheated big time and found a different path that works for me. I purchased Generation Genesis with the two addons to get my figure from V4 to G3F. Then I bought the G3F to G8F converter. Then I bought the Legacy UVs for G8F. So, effectively I turned the character modern, put on the original V4 MATs and voila. The character looked great. Then a few minutes of tweaking the converted character with the V4 standing next to it until I got it 99.9% perfect. Then saved it as a Character Preset. Now I'm doing a rinse and repeat on my other V4 characters. Once they have hair and clothes on I can't see any of the very minor differences between the original and the modern incarnation. This solution may not be for everyone, but it definitely is going to serve me well. Thanks again to everyone who offered such great advice. And sorry for taking the easy way out. :)
haha No need at apologize at all. We all work with what is best for us and our own workflow. Personally, I'd LOVE to work with V4 more - I have SO MANY V4 characters and lots of V4 clothing. But she takes far too much time to set up properly in a scene that it doesn't make much sense for me, personally, to use her much except when I feel like working with her simply for the challenge of it. With Genesis 8 I can load her up, pose her, load the clothes, load the hair, and I'm pretty much done. There's rarely poke through and the times there is it's usually pretty minor and something fairly easy to fix with either a smoothing modifier or push modifier. With V4 the poke through can be massive. Huge parts of the legs poking through, breasts poking all the way through, etc etc. Expressions and poses are also quite a bit easier with Genesis 8 as well. Often times you get odd looking bends with a lot of V4 poses and getting a decent expression for her and getting her looking naturally at the camera and all that can be a pain.
Thankfully Genesis 8 is quite a bit easier to work with, allowing for faster scene setup, imo. :)
Hi once you transferred the V4 character to G8F what process did you use to put the original V4 mats on her?
I've only been able to get V4 mats on Genesis and G2, same with Michael models. Would like to get them on G3 and G8, never actually tried to redo them in a 2d program to make fit, something that has crossed my mind for some V3 mats.
As for clothes, never had a problem with that unless the clothes hand no morphs for other characters.
AFAIK, clones are the easiest way to transfer textures. https://www.daz3d.com/sy-victoria-4-and-michael-4-clones-for-genesis-8
And Leana actually provided the answer in this thread, which has a discussion of converting V4/M4 to G8.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6077842/#Comment_6077842
There are also links to Cayman Studios' legacy UVs for G8.
you can use Blender
I use either Ultimate Unwrap3d repaint or Zprojection in Zbrush to transfer textures myself
actually I find a combination of both programs best as Ultimate Unwrap3d can convert to vertex colours and Zbrush can project vertex colour from one UV mapped mesh occupying the same 3D space to another at much higher resolutions than UUW3D
in DAZ studio Caymans geografted solutions work well too
I remembered this thread about free autofit clones. @Catherine3678ab is some sort of wizard and also maybe the queen of freebies here.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/352226/clones-for-autofit-reup/p1
Have you looked at Cayman Studios's legacy UVs products? (The V4 to G3F one is at Rendo, it was released before they were vendors here)
Age old problem with using Poser content in DS and Poser, no idea if Cross Talk is still an issue in newer versions of Poser, but back then Cross Talk was the bane of every content maker, so much so that many went out of their way to avoid it, and came up with some hair brained ways of doing it too.
This pretty much breaks the morphs for use in DS as "super conformers", some can still be dialed up manually as the valueParms in the BODY have the wrong internal ID, but others will have to be dialed up in each body part as the valueParms are correct but the ERC in each targetGeom is broken.
DS does have "Transfer Active Morphs" for use with Poser content, but this can be very hit or miss depending on how big a mess was made of the morphs. The systems checks the figure for any active valueParms, checks their internal ID, and then copies the valueParms and targetGeoms then pushes the morph deltas into the clothing. The problem with this system is when it finds a valueParm in the clothing with the correct internal ID, it's basically aborts the morph transfer and refuses to overwrite the existing morph.
As a Carrara user I actually use Dimension 3D's Morphing clothes to add every morph and Carrara "crosstalks" with the results
I never did use it in DS as it has the transfer active morphs but back in the day that was DSA3 and up not the free version
I bought it from the now defunct Content Paradise but I do believe Renderosity still sells it.