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Thank you so much for your perfect wording! A few days ago I tried voicing similar concerns in the other thread and I think my point was rather missed.
I don't care for his portfolio at all. He may be a real-world photographer, but Shudu and Koffi feel so lost in many of his renders, in terms of just blending in with a dark background or disappearing into nothing against an overexposed light one.
I find the racial dynamics with specifically Shudu and Cameron-James Wilson... worth talking about. But I won´t go further into that because I don´t think this is the forum for such discussions.
But the argument that digital models are taking work away from real models... I´m not convinced. Fashion illustrations have always existed. Illustrators aren´t taking work away from models... or if they do, then models are also taking work away from illustrators. And illustration is also a ridiculously competitive field.
I'll refer folks again to this discussion (click second image for video) between Ama Badu and Aleksandrah Gondora to get another perspective.
The Diigitals Muses // Alexandrah
A creative team is going to use a human model if the project is better served by a human model, and I wouldn't exactly bet on big publications running to use 3D characters once the novelty's worn off. Maybe? Pots and pans in online catalogs are often renders so they can swap out materials without needing to set up physical photoshoots. But in one interview Wilson even says they've been using actual people as body models for Shudu and superimposing her appearance on them. Using fully digital models means the clothes have to be 3D too, and also I would not underestimate how dedicated the fashion industry is to maintaining its power systems. Sure, if you have digital models you don't need to worry about the practicalities of shoots--but that means you don't have jobs for all the people involved in those, and some of those people are not about to lose their prestigious roles.
I think maybe a more nuanced way to put it would be "sucking up all the air in the room." Wilson is really the one being elevated here, not Shudu (I'll spare everyone a whole other essay on how she's often described in articles almost like an autonomous AI, which obscures the fact that her every single move is manually controlled by humans). And again, he did take the criticism he got to heart, and it's not really about him. It's a whole system that saw him doing something kinda cool and showered him with awestruck press. Did any of these major outlets actually look at the Daz site when he mentioned it? If so, did it ping even the slightest bit of interest that there's an entire community of people making and working with similar models, and that potentially anyone could create their own character like this using the software? Did they look for Black artists in the Daz community when they mentioned he'd gotten criticism? If the tech is so impressive and full of possibilities, where's the deep dive into the tech?
They were all totally incurious because the story they were after was "wunderkind discovers novel new market" and he happened to have the connections and resources for that to buoy him, and he was more or less declared the leading expert and a 3D trailblazer. And the messed up thing is, Wilson himself tried to tell them. I think he's totally sincere when he says he thinks this type of digital presence can make anyone into a model, and that he sees how this could open doors to people who wouldn't otherwise be in fashion and make it a healthier industry. But that observation was neatly folded in to his narrative as a bit of forward-looking idealism. Could he have used his moment in the spotlight to talk about it more? Absolutely, but pieces like this are their own genre and the audiences for them are mostly interested in success stories.
ArkadySkies said:
I like these a lot too, and digging into her site I think her piece on how she got started is fascinating in comparison.
Anyone can put up a webpage with a few renders, call it a modelling agency, put out a press release and get some media attention. I see no evidence of these models being used in any promotional or editorial work by, well, anyone, and none of media attention comes from the fashion press.
That's how being an influencer works nowadays. You go on Instagram, put out slick content that looks like a sponsored ad (but isn't), and then wait for sponsors to get in touch with you. You're your own best marketer in the content based economy.
This thread should just be closed, if its going to be edited this much. The existing posts don't follow the conversation and misrepresent what was said here.
I personally prefer her aesthetics and approach to realism over Shudu's creator's, and consider her a far superior artist. Whether or not her attempt to transition from fashion photography to virtual model agency is successful like his has no bearing on that - that's not even a direction I knew she was going until I looked her up to link to her artstation as an example of better photorealism and more human-like 3D characters, but her agency site had more renders so I chose that instead. She's just on my mind because I've seen her around on BlenderArtists since before she was any good, saw her more as she quckly improved, plus she had a recent BlenderNation writeup.
Eh, people all over the world in all lines of professions have been losing their jobs because of digitalisation. Why should models be protected from it? The models just have to do what the rest of us have to do when our jobs become obsolete: Back to school and try for a job that hactually has some demand. That's just how the world today works.
This is a great example all around because she does seem to have taken a deliberate approach to her work and process, and according to his own description putting up a webpage with a few renders and calling it a modelling agency is exactly what Wilson did. If the fashion industry is actually interested in this as a service for something other than media buzz, in the long term she may do very well even if she never has the same spotlight.
Well, you don't go far in the fashion business if the only people you're influencing are 3D geeks. Cameron first got attention in the fashion and promotional fields. If you're going to make money and be successful at this stuff, that's the better approach.
I don't see black models, or any models having a problem with Cameron. They're in on the gag. He couldn't do this without them, and they're getting additional exposure partly because of him as well as paid work.
I don't think one should assume because black models aren't posting negative opinion of Cameron's work that this means they are 'in on the gag' and enjoying the representation.
I think this forum isn't the place for discussions that run too deep, for better and for worse. And I think I too am partly responsible for this thread so far not having been the best possible version of itself.
This thread is titled "The Diigitals", so I suggest that going forward we discuss mainly the actual output of The Diigitals, meaning the images and videos they produce and the items they sell in the store. Do you like them? What would you like to see next? Did you encounter work by the Diigitals "out in the wild", eg. a billboard or fashion magazine? What did you think of it? Did you buy the swimsuit bundle? Do you like its content? Let's see some renders!
And while we're discussing The Diigitals' work, my hope is that we can all remember that the folks behind it are, at the end of the day, just like us: people who enjoy working with DAZ Studio. Valid, constructive criticism is fine to a certain degree; but at one point, if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. Peace, y'all!
And what about their positive opinions? Are they not valid?
Since Hylas has directed the thread stay positive with no negative comments, and focus on the actual Diigitals I have nothing really to add that contributes to that topic at this time, but I would be interested in reading links to positive feedback from models on this topic.
Hey guys!
Cameron from The Diigitals here.
There is a lot of assumptions made in this thread, some valid points, some unecessary comments and some ignorant ones too.
Whilst I didn't start this topic, I can understand that you'd want to compare my work with other agencies, that's fine. The other artists work that's shown is amazing, and I would hope to believe that none of us are any 'better' than any other. We're all just artists expressing our own points of view.
I try and make myself as accessible as possible, so people can ask me questions whenever they want. This new industry can be confusing and I try to be as transparent as possible.
I want to be clear on a few things. I work hard to make sure my art has a positive impact on models jobs. I work with real models when doing commercial projects, or if working with a model isn't possible, I'll work with a writer or other creative. This is especially important where Shudu is concerned, as she has the potential to impact jobs for models of colour, who are already under represented in fashion.
When creating Shudu I had no idea she would be popular. I created her out of love, appreciated and also, frustration of not seeing beauty represented in the way I see it in the media. Whether I was playing games or watching movies there was a distinct lack of dark skinned black actors/characters/models. Even when it came to creating Shudu, my choices were severely limited because there is a huge lack of content for creating black characters.
I name my characters in series of 5 letters. Yes that may make their names feel a little contrived, but so does calling characters things like Pepper Potts or Peter Parker, and I draw a lot of inspiration from comic books.
In no way shape or form is Koffi's name a 'food pun'. I find that an extremely ignorant thought. Koffi's name is a traditional Ghanaian name, given to him to honour the amazing Ghanaians I've known in my life. I country I almost had the pleasure to visit until we were locked down, and somewhere I'd love to go after.
Any of the personal attacks and assumptions made about me and my character are all based on things from the internet, I don't actually believe I know any of you? I'm just an artist like the rest of you trying my hardest to make something of myself doing what I love to do and yes that's creating 3D characters and renders.
Hey Cameron! I don't have a dog in this fight. I haven't decided how I feel about virtual agencies. But I am against NFTs because of the environmental waste so I won't be buying any from Daz or anyone else. I would, however, buy some models that you collaborated on if I could afford them. I think your models are beautiful and I especially love Brenn and Koffi! Thanks for stopping by to say something and I hope you have a decent day.
You love Brenn eh? Hmmm the Daz store could do with some more like figures like Brenn.
Also, in case you wanted to build your own Brenn, her body is Bethany 7. It's such a beautiful plus shape! And her skin is built of off Monique 8... ;)
I definitely want to bring figures to the store though, even if they are variations of characters rather than direct look a likes. Although, I know people want the real thing!
Now this is something I would be interested in, especially if some of your figures were based on Genesis 3.
One of these days I'm going to end up on a black list...didn't spend enough time editing before hitting the post button this time...my bad.
Cameron I appoligize for what I said about you. I never should have said something so personal, especially when neither of us knows the other. And you're right, all I know about you is from a couple of youtube video's.
In keeping with this particular thread...some of you think 3D modelling might be just a flash in the pan. Don't count on that. I have been talking with someone about using Daz models in Unreal to be presented to companies who have online shops, since so many are now buying online thanks to the pandemic. If this flies like they think it will, Cameron's concept is actually on par with how things are progressing in 3D. Consider how many people spend time on their phones, tablets and computers. We are constantly being told the world is changing and things will most likely not go back to the normal we once knew thanks to the pandemic. Realistically, you are all discussing the beginnings of what might be our new future.
I wouldn't mind these models as characters to buy here at Daz, though I don't restrict myself to just G8 or it's newest counter part, I also use G3 and G2 quite regularly.
That would be amazing! I already exprerssed my love for Koffi... J-Yung is the other model that really caught my eye. If that's the caliber of characters you're going to sell.... can't wait to see what you come up with!
It's fine, it was a little personal haha but we can move on :)
I definitely do want to do figures, it's really something I've been saying I'll do for ages.
what I'm working on right now is some more fashions that utilise the strand based hair system to look really cool, but that might not be for everyone.
In the future I really want to create some figures where the bodies are certain real word sizes, in England we would say a size 8 or size 12. As a few of you know I work mostly in fashion these would be aimed at designers, who want very specific measurements from their avatars.
Of course these figures would come with a great face and skin :) however, everything I've created is all from Daz assets readily available on the store. Obviously I can't say exactly what as I want to keep some of my characters to myself, but I will say some of the Daz original characters skins/base mesh are amazing! And I love BlueJuante skins ;) plus some of zev0 morph packs.
Hopefully I can push out some things that this community really do enjoy!
Please don't see this as a personal attack. I only use Your post as the base for a general statement. It doesn't mean that I disagree with You or disrepect Your opinion and/or intent.
I think that people have made it habit to "assume" a lot, especially on the internet. Opinions have pushed facts into a corner and show their muscles. Mostly the internet it is to blame for it, as it makes so easy to bring unchecked "facts" to the public or de-value checked facts by doubting them, supported by the most unrealistic theories...
I'm neither a model not black, so I wouldn't dare to assume anything about them. On the other hand the absence of any negative posts by any persons that might be affected by these digital "persons" of course not can mean automatically that they like them or what they are do. But they probably voice their own standpoints and probably don't others to do this for them.
just jumping in here with a link to our muse page, which is all about the wonderful models we work with. They're all happy to work with me, they're paid, they're credited and we have fun shooting together!
https://www.thediigitals.com/muse
However, their opinions don't speak for everybody. Of course there will be those who don't like what I do and I get that. These are people who know me, who have spent time with me. People I've had long conversations with about my work and whose opinions I believe reflect my true intent with this work. But again, not everyone will agree.
This is a new industry and I'm always open to learn. Hopefully it's an industry big enough for many artists who enjoy making characters, I am by no means saying I'm the best ever and quite frankly the success I've had has come as a shock to me.
I watched Ama Badu's chat with Aleksandrah Gondora the other day and was inspired by Aleksandrah's energy. Amazing lady.
The thread owner has asked that the thread remain on topic. So far multiple posts continue to take it off topic. Here is the topic at hand:
"This thread is titled "The Diigitals", so I suggest that going forward we discuss mainly the actual output of The Diigitals, meaning the images and videos they produce and the items they sell in the store. Do you like them? What would you like to see next? Did you encounter work by the Diigitals "out in the wild", eg. a billboard or fashion magazine? What did you think of it? Did you buy the swimsuit bundle? Do you like its content? Let's see some renders!"
I already said on Facebook I have no issues with the Diigitals themselves just NFTs and DAZ promoting them.
I didn't buy the Swimsuit Bundle, but I did buy the swimsuits product for G8 and I love it. The textures themselves, at least for the shirts, are tiled, so I enjoyed doing a bit of kitbashing to change up the looks a little bit. Here is a very quick render.
I was hoping for more similar outfits, for male and female. (I'm not picky about swimsuits or contemporary wear.)
@Karuki, It's great to hear that there are actual models being employed and, most importantly, credited. I'm guessing the process would be similar to how actors are employed to animate digital characters? As to becoming a vendor, if those virtual photoshoots are all 3D (meaning only the products --dresses, jewelry, etc.) are superimposed, then those types of fashionable virtual photoshoot sets would be a great product, IMHO. Or, at least, that would be something I'd be interested in. They might also perhaps come in handy to build promos for PAs who sell characters.