Support for Gen4 in DS 4.14?
arrowfoot
Posts: 2
I've noticed that some of the older characters including Victoria 4.2 are now shown in the store as only compatible with Poser and not with DS 4.14 - as a result they don't appear in search if filtering by "software". Is this another store glitch or was support for Gen4 indeed dropped in the latest DS version?
I was away from Daz-related stuff for a while and trying to get my bearings...
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Some of them will use advanced Poser Material Room set ups - for example many of Surreality's characters - and DS can't convert those, so if there are no native DS materials (which would be for 3Delight) then the Poser-only designation would be correct. The morphs should wiork, and it might be possible to figure out your own materials using the included maps, but it would definitely be going off-piste.
Thanks Richard, but in case of Victoria 4 - she was designed to be DS-compatible and has always been marked (and marketed) as such. So is this a new store thing or did something change on the DS side recently?
For me the real question is - does upgrading to DS 4.14 mean losing support for V4?
I see what arrowfoot means - here's an example that doesn't show in the store as DS-compatible but certainly should be.
ETA: Even the old "Elite texture" characters are missing if you pick DS4.14 in the software dropdown, e.g. https://www.daz3d.com/v4-elite-texture-lana - and that actually originally came bundled with the HSS shader for DS!
That's even worse for the Gen 4 male Michael. I recently reinstalled him. He isn't even easy to find in the Content manager, where he is only seen as a poser character.
This addresses why I think DAZ has chosen to stop support of the legacy figures. This is only an opinion, not fact, not even an educated guess, just my opinion.
DAZ in a simple term (and no moderator this is not an accusational comment,) DAZ inadvertantly/indirectly broke V4 and never truly went back to fix it. The problem is quite simple, sometime from version 4.9 to 4.12 of Studio the IK Chains were rewritten and that 'broke' v4, it also 'broke' m4 and all IK chains of the legacy animals.
The problem is simple to repeat and see. Using the translate tool and/or sliders has shown V4/M4 and nearly all legacy animals all suffer a minor to severe twitch while being moved around the scene. Given that some poses when applied much like Genesis to Genesis 8 they reset their position to 0,0,0 and have to be moved back to where you were working. Welcome to the broken pose; a foot twitch, arms moved, back bent or wings turned, tail twisted out of an intricate pose. The pose is broken and while moving back to the location the figure twitches… even 3d Universes toon ape does the twitch. (FYI Richard if you read your PM you would see I asked you about this in a private PM last week and then moved it to a trouble log entry given the no response.)
However I have a horrible and down and dirty work around. If you use IK Chains for the legacy figures then you're out of luck, sorry. Turning off IK Chains doesn’t work, deleting the IK chains is a temp fix but upon save and later loading your scene, you now have double the IK Chains.) so…
1) make a small cube.
2)scale the cube down to 1% and make sure under the PARAMETERS tab to mark it under DISPLAY that this cube is not seen in simulation, and in the SHADER tab to make it transparent. and lastly parent/child the thing to the figure.
3)last step, all 4 IK chains that appear with V4/M4 or all chains under the legacy animals and assign (under the PARAMETERS tab) the CHAIN ROOT and CHAIN END to the cube.
I hope this works for others. Good Luck.
I will report the compatibility listing issue, I'm pretty sure it is not meant to be that way.
I'm not seeing this in 4.14.0.10, using either the hip or the figure node to translate a posed Victoria 4.
Michael 4 is and was only ever a Poser character. All the Millennium Generation characters are for Poser. Not that there's anything wrong with that. DAZ Studio imports them no problem, as long as they are plain .cr2's without those pesky .pmd external binaries, or have Poser shader materials (those are indeed for Poser only). They do, however, mostly have DS-native material settings, or materials that "might require adjustment in DAZ Studio". They were always listed as DAZ Studio compatible. Somebody left something out, either on the page template or in the dataset used to fill in the fields.
@Richard, I'm not sure what the issue is then, due to I'm seeing this on 4.14 (current beta ) and 4.14 (public release) on one computer, and on a different computer; 4.12 beta does it, BUT, when I use 4.9 public release on the same laptop (this prior to the IK Chain rework per the change log). I don't have the problem any more. In fact both the 4.12 and 4.9 versions share the same folder structure, add to that, both computer systems use the same layout. if I delete the IK Chains (from the scene tab) not one version of Studio appears to show this problem, not even a hint of a twitch/jitter while moving the figure.
Which is why I believed DAZ stopped advertising legacy based products with anything version 4.14 or close to. Legacy prodocuts don't sell like they used to, so why support them? Microsoft has a cut off date for each version, most software companies do the same, I figured DAZ was doing the same as well but hey I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.
Lastly, the DAZ trouble log email says DAZ is about 4 week out from getting to this problem, so, I can wait, if it's one thing about this year and hobby, we've learned it's patience in the face of adversity or challenges.
R/
PDSmith
Well, it may be that I am misunderstanding the issue - I loaded Victoria 4, aplied a pose, and used the Universal tool on the Viewport gizmo to translate her with the figure selected and then with the hip selected - the pose seemed to remain stable.
I think that was an estimate as to how long it will be ebfore the ticket is handled, it says nothing of what will happen then.
I've been getting the rattling IK chains as PDSmith mentioned since 4.12.X
I solved this problem several years ago. I created two scenes, one each for V4 and M4. I loaded them up with all their morphs and saved the scenes in DS. I just sampled one of the scenes to make sure they still work. Sure enough, my "Loaded V4" scene will still take any of the old poser characters, morphs and mats. I did a large sampling throughout that Poser runtime. I am really glad I did it! Whenever I need her, I can just merge her right into a scene from that file.
you can work around the poser directory issue by loading the charactter from the poser directory into a scene and then save the characher as a scene preset ... in the folder with your daz characters and load it from there and at least skip having to go to the other directory
Unfortunately, this fix breaks some of the character morphs for M4. Probably also V4, but haven't tested it with V4.
Because lots of people have thousands of dollars invested in G4 content such as M4 and V4 and those two figures are still very heavily used. If Studio stops supporting them, it will cause a lot of people (including me) to switch back to Poser, which I've already started using again anyway for some of my work because of Studio's exclusive focus on Iray these days and the lack of updates or bug fixes for 3Delight.
Delete IK Chains (V4-M4) .
Like I said above. "Turning off IK Chains doesn’t work, deleting the IK chains is a temp fix which only works for the session you're current working it. but upon save AND later loading your scene, you now have double the IK Chains.)" This also applies to loading just the figure vs loading a scene with the legacy figure. Instead of 4 IK chains, you now have 8 IK chains and the problem of using the translate tool and its twitching limbs, bending figures continues.
I'm just a hobbyist so I don't know the details of how or what happened, nor speak the jarggon of technical issue, I just know that sometime around version 4.12 the IK chains were changed and DAZ in a way ruined the LEGACY based figures. (I'm refering to those figures that run/work in Poser natively) and also being just a hobbiest means my temp fix is exactly that, a temporary fix and it's not a great one.
I see this temp fix much like my temp fix for Powerpose, it was a community needed fix for an overlooked yet excisting problem,
Could this be related with the hair problem for a GF1 figure I explained here? https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6118442/#Comment_6118442
@ Lantia Vertel, I loaded up G1 (with studio 4.9, 4.12, and 4.14beta and extended the neck and attempted to load the hair as you had shown in the examples. I got the very same effect with each version, and not just that hair you used, but other DAZ and Rendo based hair. I think, and I'm no professional or tech guru, but I think the hair was made without the neck morphs and so they don't know how to react when the neck is extended. This glitch may be been just one of many reasons why G1 was so short lived...just a guess. But the versitility of an all in one figure is still flipping awesome.
So to take this tread back on track, no, in my opinion, it is not related to the IK Chain issue since G1 and up don't have IK chains active upon loading, or atleast from what I can tell in the scene tab.
Thanks, and sorry ofr adding noise to the thread.That hair has worked well for me for years, and it has been sudently in that version released 2 months ago when I started getting that weird behaviour. Not only with the hair, there are similar issues with other items. Since then, every new version still have that issue. Some GF1 hairs work well, but this one and other just started failing suddenly for the new versions after years working well :/ Luckily I still have an old Daz version I can use and works well, but I will need to update at some point...
Have you tried to drop then into a group and move the group to avoid spastic reposing when dragging the older characters? Seems to work for me.
@Totte, that idea also worked. I tried a save, as a scene saved file and as a saved Subset figure...as long as the group is saved as part of the figures Subset, it all works out.
Thank you.
Unfortunately, the twitching problem still excists with version 4.15. so this temp solution is still needed. and yes I'm sure some will ask, latest driver? Yes.