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Genesis 8.1 / Victoria 8.1

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  • emoryahlbergemoryahlberg Posts: 133

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Odd. Why can't I just add the textures manually while keeping the skin shader settings?

     

    Also, I'm very curious about this:

    • Added support to leverage MicroSkin tiling micro normal maps from our partners at Texturing.xyz

    Is the micro normals already part of the skin shader?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,528

    plasma_ring said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    so is the FACS thing only with Victoria 8 then?

    no information in that video how it works as in what tool to use or if there is a window, Powerpose doesn't seem to have it just the usual dots so am assuming not just base 8.1

    If you go to Expressions > any part of the face there are a bunch of new dials for 8.1. For example, eyes have options like Blink and Look Out/In.  You can also move the bones directly by expanding 8.1's head in the scene tab and opening up "upper face rig" and "lower face rig." As I understand it, the difference is mainly in how face movements are calculated. 

    in the video they showed onscreen controls  

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025

    namtar3d said:

    Hi there, i just bought Victoria 8.1 and downloaded the updates, but i can't find the new features, i can't even access the old system O_o... 

     

    Please tell me i don't need to buy the whole bundle!

    You don't need to buy the bundle. If you downloaded the updates and you aren't seeing the correct options, it might be a good idea to file a bug report. 

  • deepswingdeepswing Posts: 152

    emoryahlberg said:

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Odd. Why can't I just add the textures manually while keeping the skin shader settings?

    Yes that works, just tested, thanks! 

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025
    edited January 2021

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    plasma_ring said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    so is the FACS thing only with Victoria 8 then?

    no information in that video how it works as in what tool to use or if there is a window, Powerpose doesn't seem to have it just the usual dots so am assuming not just base 8.1

    If you go to Expressions > any part of the face there are a bunch of new dials for 8.1. For example, eyes have options like Blink and Look Out/In.  You can also move the bones directly by expanding 8.1's head in the scene tab and opening up "upper face rig" and "lower face rig." As I understand it, the difference is mainly in how face movements are calculated. 

    in the video they showed onscreen controls  

    Oh interesting, I missed that somehow. It looks like some of the package updates are in wierd places, so maybe it's hiding (or was left out by mistake). D:

    Never mind, I found it! It's under Genesis 8 Male PowerPose Templates > Anatomy > Genesis 8 Female Face Controls. It loads parented to the head and it doesn't seem to be visible in Iray viewport. 

    Post edited by plasma_ring on
  • SotoSoto Posts: 1,440

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Yes, if you apply a G8 shader/material preset to G8.1, it will overwrite the new skin shader. The material settings are defined by the currently applied preset, they are not part of the figure itself.

    If you want Olympia to benefit from the new skin shader, you would have to manually match Olympia's settings and maps into the applied new skin shader. Maybe someone knows of an easier way. :)

  • emoryahlbergemoryahlberg Posts: 133

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Odd. Why can't I just add the textures manually while keeping the skin shader settings?

    Yes that works, just tested, thanks! 

    Perfect! I'm excited to try this out. 

    Any word on the micro normals from texturexyz? I don't understand what they mean by added compatibility.

     

  • latexluv13_65ebcf7300latexluv13_65ebcf7300 Posts: 85

    The improved skin shader does not appear to be in the new Starter Essentials that I just downloaded.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,677

    Wow, awesome news and a big improvements. Congrats Daz 3D and all of the artists involved in the production.

     

  • apocalypse_cowapocalypse_cow Posts: 53

    I found the FACS controls! they can be found under people>genesis 8 female>developer kit>genesis 8.1 female face controls. it's an attachment that you apply to the figure and then you can use the various parts of it to control expressions.

  • drzapdrzap Posts: 795

    Wow!  I don't know why this is only considered a .1 upgrade because the practical differences between this and G8 are greater than the differences between G3 and G8.   Eyes and mouth geo is 1000% better!  production class facial rig is included for free!  It seems Daz has partnered with Texturing.xyz for real improvements in skin microdetails.  This is the most significant upgrade to Daz figures in years!  I mostly lost faith in Daz, but they deserve a lot of credit for this one.  Here's to hoping there will be new Bridge plugins that will transfer the face rig with the figure because 8.1 doesn't deserve to be trapped in Daz Studio.  Good job, Daz3d.

  • deepswingdeepswing Posts: 152

    emoryahlberg said:

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Odd. Why can't I just add the textures manually while keeping the skin shader settings?

    Yes that works, just tested, thanks! 

    Perfect! I'm excited to try this out. 

    Any word on the micro normals from texturexyz? I don't understand what they mean by added compatibility.

    It takes some time though to add the maps etc. It doesn't work with exchanging just the base map and that's it, all the settings need to be transferred and mapped correctly. Time-intense, so far...

  • Rod Wise DriggoRod Wise Driggo Posts: 2,225

    Think a bought a FACS product just recently with the Gen 3 & 8 Face Controls: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3--8-face-controls

    Is the included FACS with 8.1 any different?

  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 3,244

    The Inner Circle said:

    One thing I have found is that it does not like geoshells. The 3 I have used so far so the dreaded all white.

    But as @Changelingchick is one of my favourite PA's and seems a strong supporter of 8.1, I have faith. Happy to give some time to mature.

    David

    Ok, so, first, thank you :D Second, the white is probably because the mat zones for the torso is now named body & head and geoshells do not have a compatibility base because they apply to everything instead of specific figures so this can mess up the way the devs set up the automagic workings. This is a really interesting issue actually. If this isn't something the devs can fix to automagically work, I'll at least update my geoshell stuff to be compatible with 8.1. I will definitely ask them about this.

     

    Lothar Weber said:

    So no answer about the velus hair?

    I am 100% not ignoring you, but I was trying to find the answer. I don't know yet :D I've sent a query in about it, so hopefully we'll get an answer shortly, but it's 4am for me, and I haven't slept yet. I was going to go to bed early, then 8.1 came out, and I couldn't miss that :D 

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    latexluv13_65ebcf7300 said:

    The improved skin shader does not appear to be in the new Starter Essentials that I just downloaded.

    What are you looking for and where?

    G8.1 materials can be found in  "...\People\Genesis 8 Female\Materials\Base Materials\Iray\"

  • The Blurst of TimesThe Blurst of Times Posts: 2,410
    edited January 2021

    Hellboy said:

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Yes, if you apply a G8 shader/material preset to G8.1, it will overwrite the new skin shader. The material settings are defined by the currently applied preset, they are not part of the figure itself.

    If you want Olympia to benefit from the new skin shader, you would have to manually match Olympia's settings and maps into the applied new skin shader. Maybe someone knows of an easier way. :)

    1. Load G8.1F figure.
    2. Apply your Skin from Genesis 8 (Olympia 8, whatever)
    3. Go to the materials for Genesis 8.1 Female -> Skin
    4. CTRL-doubleclick the All Maps
    5. "Ignore" images on the pop-up window
    6. Change UV back to Base Female (instead of Base 8.1 Female)

    It's just like any other time you apply a Material-as-Shader and don't want to overwrite the texture maps.

    Post edited by The Blurst of Times on
  • Calliope23Calliope23 Posts: 536

    I am sad that my bazillions of expressions for Genesis 8 don't work on Genesis 8.1.

  • japanggjapangg Posts: 39
    edited January 2021

    ChangelingChick said:

    japangg said:

    ChangelingChick said:

     

    Yes. But, your old materials will still apply as they are without any extra work from you. The programmers did some really cool stuff to make sure what you have wasn't made obsolete. The new body and head section can use the new UV and the old one just as easily as the other.

     

     

    I just downloaded the update through DIM and tried some of the feature.  I noticed that there is a Body and Head section in the Surface tab.  For the "Body" part, I can use the "Torso" part from G8F characters, including those created through SkinBuilder.  However, I doi not know how to address the new "Head' section, as there is no compatible item for that in SkinBuilder, or previous G8F character.  How can this be addressed?  Thanks in advance.

    Use the torso (body) material (just copy/paste if it didn't apply on its own) and set the UV to Base Female instead of Base 8.1 Female.

     

    Thanks.  It works, to a certain degree.  But I get strong demarcation line on the base of the neck between the border of the torso and the neck. I also get a strong demarcation line for the back of the head :(

    Post edited by japangg on
  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    edited January 2021
    ChangelingChick said:

    Rod Wise Driggo said:

    Guess I need to wait a little and see how this all develops. Got a lot of questions:

    Vicky 8.1 comes with a new 8.1 HD Add-On. Now are we expected to upgrade each and every 8.0 character and HD to 8.1. Would cost a fortune?
    Will those 8.0 morphs packs - thinking mostly of my comprehensive Zev0 library - work with 8.1 or not. Will those be updated free of charge or as paid upgrades?
    Is 8.1 a new figure within the library (regarding all those morphs in the data folder)?

    And so on...

    Again, everything you have, HD and otherwise other than some expressions will work on 8.1 already. They went to great pains to make sure people didn't lose the use of their G8 libraries. 

     

    JasonSWrench said:

    So, why isn't this just Genesis 9? I'm not sure what I think yet. I'm going to go to bed and decided if I want purchase an 8.1 upgrade tomorrow. Just not convinced yet that it's a necessary purchase. Hmmm... 

    J

    It's the same mesh. It isn't a new figure. It's an update of the one that you already have to improve on realism and a few other things. 

     AllenArt said:

    Looks to me like it might as well be Genesis 9. We'll still be buying the characters all over again and the HD addon is STILL separate. Daz may get Vicky and Mike out of me, but I don't think I'm gonna fall for the 60 plus characters like I have now. Forget it. 

     Nope. Same base figure. All the figures and HD you have will work on 8.1

     

    Ghosty12 said:

    There is one huge difference with Genesis 8.1 apart from the obvious, is that the texture layout has changed.. With Genesis 8 the head and torso texture were one, with Genesis 8.1 the head and torso are now seperate entities..

    Yes. But, your old materials will still apply as they are without any extra work from you. The programmers did some really cool stuff to make sure what you have wasn't made obsolete. The new body and head section can use the new UV and the old one just as easily as the other.

     

     

    If older morphs are still usable, does that mean both figures share the same vertice count and the same vertice orders? And the new tear duct and eyelash mesh is a separate figure, like the old eyelash mesh being a separate figure?

    That's all I care about for now.

    Post edited by Asari on
  • deepswingdeepswing Posts: 152
    edited January 2021

    The Blurst of Times said:

    Hellboy said:

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Yes, if you apply a G8 shader/material preset to G8.1, it will overwrite the new skin shader. The material settings are defined by the currently applied preset, they are not part of the figure itself.

    If you want Olympia to benefit from the new skin shader, you would have to manually match Olympia's settings and maps into the applied new skin shader. Maybe someone knows of an easier way. :)

    1. Load G8.1F figure.
    2. Apply your Skin from Genesis 8 (Olympia 8, whatever)
    3. Go to the materials for Genesis 8.1 Female -> Skin
    4. CTRL-doubleclick the All Maps
    5. "Ignore" images on the pop-up window
    6. Change UV back to Base Female (instead of Base 8.1 Female)

    It's just like any other time you apply a Material-as-Shader and don't want to overwrite the texture maps.

    Hm, that doesn't seem to work for me, see below. On the left, this is the original 8.0 model with its skin. On the right, this is after applying it the way you described to a G8.1 female. Did I do something wrong here? 

    80 vs 81 skin.png
    2000 x 1125 - 2M
    Post edited by deepswing on
  • The Blurst of TimesThe Blurst of Times Posts: 2,410

    deepswing said:

    The Blurst of Times said:

    Hellboy said:

    deepswing said:

    emoryahlberg said:

    Neat!

    Am I able to apply a texture set from, say, Olympia while keeping the improved skin shader?

    And I'm assuming all morphs work with 8.1?

    That's what I am trying to figure out. So yes, you can apply Olympia 8.0 textures on it, but it looks like you switch to 8.0 technology then. At least I don't see any difference in test shots I did so far.

    Yes, morphs still work (with some exceptions to expressions).

    Yes, if you apply a G8 shader/material preset to G8.1, it will overwrite the new skin shader. The material settings are defined by the currently applied preset, they are not part of the figure itself.

    If you want Olympia to benefit from the new skin shader, you would have to manually match Olympia's settings and maps into the applied new skin shader. Maybe someone knows of an easier way. :)

    1. Load G8.1F figure.
    2. Apply your Skin from Genesis 8 (Olympia 8, whatever)
    3. Go to the materials for Genesis 8.1 Female -> Skin
    4. CTRL-doubleclick the All Maps
    5. "Ignore" images on the pop-up window
    6. Change UV back to Base Female (instead of Base 8.1 Female)

    It's just like any other time you apply a Material-as-Shader and don't want to overwrite the texture maps.

    Hm, that doesn't seem to work for me, see below. On the left, this is the original 8.0 model with its skin. On the right, this is after applying it the way you described to a G8.1 female. Did I do something wrong here?

    It looks like the same underlying skin to me (other than the color difference). It may just be the difference in Translucence settings.

    You may have to copy over some of the old coloring from the Diffuse & Translucency channels. The new "Shader" will not preserve them. It will preserve the maps, but it'll overwrite all the colors in the various channels.

  • deepswingdeepswing Posts: 152

     

    Hm, that doesn't seem to work for me, see below. On the left, this is the original 8.0 model with its skin. On the right, this is after applying it the way you described to a G8.1 female. Did I do something wrong here?

    It looks like the same underlying skin to me (other than the color difference). It may just be the difference in Translucence settings.

    You may have to copy over some of the old coloring from the Diffuse & Translucency channels. The new "Shader" will not preserve them. It will preserve the maps, but it'll overwrite all the colors in the various channels.

    Alright, let me try that, thanks for the advice. 

  • The Blurst of TimesThe Blurst of Times Posts: 2,410

    Lothar Weber said:

    Where is the new velus hair in G8.1 as statet?

    • Fine, short, vellus hairs have been added for the female face and body, bringing added realism for close-up shots. For example, fine, short, and natural hairs can be seen on the arms and face."

    Okay, I just got the Bundle.

    I think Victoria 8.1 has the Vellus hair, but not G8.1 (via the Genesis 8 Starter Essentials).

    The Genesis 8.1 Vellus Hair did not show up in DIM until I got the bundle (including Victoria 8.1).

  • NathanomirNathanomir Posts: 126

    I just have upgraded all my characters from G3 to G8. The last commitment was my flagship character, who was upgraded last month. I jokingly said "Watch. As soon as I commit to her G8F version, G9 will come out."

    SONOFA ...

    Nah. Not feeling it. I spent too much money on Zev0, EJ, and Hellboy morphs and too much time upgrading a stable of 30 characters to do it all over again. Especially when the Zev0, EJ, and Hellboy morph sets for G8.1 aren't available yet. The big kicker is my flagship character uses a V7 face for a base. When will Riversoft release a G3 to G8.1 character converter? I also finally got skin sets that look like I want them to, and the new UV means starting over from scratch. YIKES!

    I don't do animations, closeups, or portraits. I do action scenes. So, any benefits from V8.1 would be totally lost at the range I usually "shoot" the scene at. If pores and body hair show up at that range, then I'm probably playing with Orcs.

    I will say, though, that V8.1 has a much prettier face than V8.

    The cool thing is since I just have upgraded everyone, there are still plenty (and I mean plenty) of fantasy outfits for G8 that I still haven't purchased. Yet. So, things will keep chugging along at their usual pace, and DAZ will still cause me to break the monthly budgets.

  • artistb3artistb3 Posts: 188
    edited January 2021

    From the write up: "Note that your Genesis 8 products should work with Genesis 8.1 characters, with the exception of some expressions. However, you cannot apply your Genesis 8.1 content to Genesis 8 or earlier characters."  Will DAZ ever understand that forward compatibility is equally important to users as backward compatibility? 

    We all want product improvements, but not at the considerable time and money cost of dealing with compatibilty issues.  So, as for all those G8 characters that users bought, sorry, but they are now obsolete as far as new 8.1 content is concerned. 

    Yes, it's not going to be as costly as it was going from G2 to G3, but it's really depressing to think of the effort (and dollars) that will go into addressing compatibility issues.

    Many may believe this will result in more content sales.  Perhaps, but it may indeed turn out to be the opposite.

    In my opinion, DAZ should have completely addressed this issue out of the box, and before releasing the product.  

    Post edited by artistb3 on
  • mrposermrposer Posts: 1,130

    I guess this means G9 isn't scheduled for 2021. 

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025

    Nathanomir said:

    I just have upgraded all my characters from G3 to G8. The last commitment was my flagship character, who was upgraded last month. I jokingly said "Watch. As soon as I commit to her G8F version, G9 will come out."

    SONOFA ...

    Nah. Not feeling it. I spent too much money on Zev0, EJ, and Hellboy morphs and too much time upgrading a stable of 30 characters to do it all over again. Especially when the Zev0, EJ, and Hellboy morph sets for G8.1 aren't available yet. The big kicker is my flagship character uses a V7 face for a base. When will Riversoft release a G3 to G8.1 character converter? I also finally got skin sets that look like I want them to, and the new UV means starting over from scratch. YIKES!

    I don't do animations, closeups, or portraits. I do action scenes. So, any benefits from V8.1 would be totally lost at the range I usually "shoot" the scene at. If pores and body hair show up at that range, then I'm probably playing with Orcs.

    I will say, though, that V8.1 has a much prettier face than V8.

    The cool thing is since I just have upgraded everyone, there are still plenty (and I mean plenty) of fantasy outfits for G8 that I still haven't purchased. Yet. So, things will keep chugging along at their usual pace, and DAZ will still cause me to break the monthly budgets.

    This is not a leap on the level of G3 -> G8. You can still use all your morphs, and you can dial in converted G3 morphs just fine. Your skin sets will still apply normally to this character. 

  • deepswingdeepswing Posts: 152

    deepswing said:

     

    Hm, that doesn't seem to work for me, see below. On the left, this is the original 8.0 model with its skin. On the right, this is after applying it the way you described to a G8.1 female. Did I do something wrong here?

    It looks like the same underlying skin to me (other than the color difference). It may just be the difference in Translucence settings.

    You may have to copy over some of the old coloring from the Diffuse & Translucency channels. The new "Shader" will not preserve them. It will preserve the maps, but it'll overwrite all the colors in the various channels.

    Alright, let me try that, thanks for the advice. 

    Costs time, but works :) 

    80 vs 81 skin v2.png
    2000 x 1125 - 3M
  • The Blurst of TimesThe Blurst of Times Posts: 2,410

    deepswing said:

    deepswing said:

     

    Hm, that doesn't seem to work for me, see below. On the left, this is the original 8.0 model with its skin. On the right, this is after applying it the way you described to a G8.1 female. Did I do something wrong here?

    It looks like the same underlying skin to me (other than the color difference). It may just be the difference in Translucence settings.

    You may have to copy over some of the old coloring from the Diffuse & Translucency channels. The new "Shader" will not preserve them. It will preserve the maps, but it'll overwrite all the colors in the various channels.

    Alright, let me try that, thanks for the advice. 

    Costs time, but works :) 

    Awesome. Glad it worked!

    I've seen a lot of nice skins look really weird due to translucence, so I'm used to having to fix all of that by hand.

  • jahochbergjahochberg Posts: 2

    I updated, loaded the figure, played with some of the rig controls. Looks nice.

    Noticed that they relased the upgrade without updating Face Transfer. That's pretty lame.

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