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Misleading - Tenley for Genesis 8.1 Female

nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
edited February 2021 in The Commons

https://www.daz3d.com/tenley-for-genesis-81-female

I bought this character as I was curious to see how a PA utilised the new texture format (Face, Head, Body, Legs and Arms). They didn't, as they are clearly in the old Genesis 8.0 format (Face, Torso, Legs and Arms).

There isn't the new extra normal specular detail maps, not is there the ambient occlusion section of the shader. Now admittedly these features come via Victoria 8.1, however when loading G8.1 female, the maps are Genesis 8.1, not Genesis 8.0

I've requested a refund - a little disgusted tbh.

I shall be wary of purchasing any G8.1 characters.

Post edited by nicstt on

Comments

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    This is just DAZ being DAZ.  The latest figure model that the product will work on is the one that will be listed.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    Easy excuse, and it is an excuse. It would have been accurate to say 8 and 8.1

    I know what to watch for, and well, it's this sort of thing that puts me off spending cash.

  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 2,005
    It's not just the compatible figures field though, I get that this is automatically updating now to the latest. But it's also in the name and description of the product. If it's not using 8.1 features it shouldn't say 8.1.
  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,057

    When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,853

    Well, Genesis 8.1 Basic Female comes with the old Iray Uber shader and surfaces, so I guess "8.1" doesn't necessarly imply that the new shader will be used. Now we know for sure. Thanks for posting your discovery, nicstt. I suppose she does have the "improved" expression capability?

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,564

    Perhaps we need more details in the What's Included and Features product description. After this, people will assume that if there's no specific mention of 8.1 features, it's probably not really a 8.1 specifc product.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,781

    fred9803 said:

    Perhaps we need more details in the What's Included and Features product description. After this, people will assume that if there's no specific mention of 8.1 features, it's probably not really a 8.1 specifc product.

    I agree. While i know better that everything coming out will be listed as 8.1 compatible since I have been here awhile and that is how DAZ does it, I do agree that if there is a change, even the smallest which there is, then it should be listed if a product utlizes these changes or not.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    barbult said:

    Well, Genesis 8.1 Basic Female comes with the old Iray Uber shader and surfaces, so I guess "8.1" doesn't necessarly imply that the new shader will be used. Now we know for sure. Thanks for posting your discovery, nicstt. I suppose she does have the "improved" expression capability?

    All 8.1 use the new facial features, including all those i've experimented on - so I expect so.

    I can easily copy genesis 8.0 textures to 8.1 myself, hell i wrote a scipt to do so - admittedly it is optimised for my own customised textures.

  • HylasHylas Posts: 5,070

    Remember how G3 characters usually mentioned in their description what UV they used? Time to bring that back!

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,723

    Thanks for the warning. It looks like we have to wait a little longer, to get a genuine Genesis 8.1 characters.

     

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    Thanks for the warning. This is disappointing. I expected all 8.1 characters to use the new PBR shader and improved textures.

    DAZ needs to start implementing better quality control.

    Frankly, these last two 8.1 releases looked pretty poor to me so I suspected something was amiss.

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    Better descriptions would be useful indeed. In what layout do characters come, G8 or G8.1, what shaders are provided, Iray or 3Delight, for hair whether it is strand based or mesh based, dforce hair or dforce cloth
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    I agree with folks comments.

    If the product had said: 8.0 and 8.1, if would have been more appropriate - especially with a note. I probably wouldn't have bought it, but I also wouldn't be feeling 'cheated' (Note I said feeling cheated). Daz's return policy makes it easy, but I'd rather not buy something in the first place if I can help it.

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025

    She's not a character I'd normally buy, but she almost made it into my cart a few times because I want to experiment with more skins designed for the new UV. I think it'd be best to have a clean break between 8 and 8.1 for descriptive purposes. Even so, I can understand why this might be uncharted territory for artists, since a lot of folks' reactions in the original thread mentioned not wanting to touch 8.1. Having the PBR shader or UV set listed under the required products would be great (although right now it's a little cluttered with the bridge compatibility, which feels more like a helpful reminder that the bridges exist than useful information). 

     

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,564

    A few peopke have mentioned quality control as the problem. I' don't think there's an issue with regard to the product's quality, but more to do with its description... accurate details (or lack of them).

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    fred9803 said:

    A few peopke have mentioned quality control as the problem. I' don't think there's an issue with regard to the product's quality, but more to do with its description... accurate details (or lack of them).

    Well, personally, I think these new 8.1 figures are a huge step down from Victoria 8.1

  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 2,675
    edited February 2021

    Leonides02 said:

    Well, personally, I think these new 8.1 figures are a huge step down from Victoria 8.1

    "Quality Control" isn't quite the same thing as "quality standards". Although the terminology often gets mixed up with Quality Assurance*, Quality Control is about fulfilling the specified standards, not the setting of the standards in the first place.

    * QC is about trying to ensure products meet the standards in the first place (making sure your workers are properly trained, you've got suitable equipment, etc), QA is about rejecting products that don't meet them (checking things after manufacture and chucking away failures).

    And, as is, it's hard to argue this product doesn't meet existing standards for figures; there are doubtless worse Genesis 8 era figures on the store.

    The thing is, PAs are in a difficult place. The base figure has been updated, but the Merchant Resources aren't there yet. All the skin resources are still for the old UVs.

    This means they either stick with Genesis 8.0 entirely, and create corrective morphs for a set of facial controls that are no longer officially supported on G8.1, or they stick with Genesis 8.0 UVs on G8.1 figures, and create their corrective morphs for the new and improved facial controls of G8.1. It's hard to argue that the second choice isn't the better option, even if it's not as good as G8.1 might have the potential to be in the long run.

    Post edited by Matt_Castle on
  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,057

    Certainly, after years of this type of thing, you don't seriously expect any sort of change, do you?

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    A good description is good for business. I mean let's be honest, if DAZ didn't have the return policy, we all would be a lot more hesitant to buy something when the description is unclear. Even worse, a lot of us customers would quit the store entirely if we bought some product with confusing descriptions and the product turns out differently.
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    are the 8.1 maps for the filament thing?

    have yet to learn what the R map is for

    r map.JPG
    290 x 275 - 30K
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,930

    Reflectivity?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,765

    As it has been necessary to remove a number of problematic posts from this thread it has been locked.

This discussion has been closed.