Simulation in water

dannagiusy64

Hi everyone. I wanted to do a simulation with a character in the water and a flowing dress. I searched for tutorials but found none. My question is to the more experienced: does it only work if I immerse the character in water or is it possible to do it even if I don't immerse him in the water? Are there any particular settings to be given in the parameters of the "simulation" panel? I have tried with dforce suits but some explode, other suits don't fall out and expand convincingly. What must be done to achieve a convincing effect? If there are also tutorials on how to get to know the simulation panel well, I'm grateful. For example, in that panel there are the Gravity and Air parameters but I don't know what they are for. Thanks in advance for your help

The Blurst of Times

Turning things partially or fully upside down (so that gravity is up) prior to simulation is usually a solution for anything that needs to float.

I tend not to do a lot of dForce simulation, however.

dannagiusy64

So you advise me not to use dforce clothes?  

The Blurst of Times said:

Turning things partially or fully upside down (so that gravity is up) prior to simulation is usually a solution for anything that needs to float.

I tend not to do a lot of dForce simulation, however.

FSMCDesigns

in the dforce settings there is a gravity option, lowering that would make it more flowing

The Blurst of Times

It's probably going to be a combination of gravity/air resistance settings, maybe changing the sim settings on different cloth as well, coupled with a change in the angle of your character for some kind of flowing + floaty movement.

You can use primitive planes as a barrier to act as the water surface (when simulating at an angle).

It is kind of a complex concept to work through. Water versus air resistance, all of that.

M-C

dannagiusy64 said:

...If there are also tutorials on how to get to know the simulation panel well, I'm grateful. For example, in that panel there are the Gravity and Air parameters but I don't know what they are for. Thanks in advance for your help

 

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081/dforce-start-here#latest

This thread hase some good explanations about all dForce related settings.

dannagiusy64

Thanks guys, you were helpful. I haven't been able to get the effect I want yet, but I'm working on it with tests 

FSMCDesigns said:

in the dforce settings there is a gravity option, lowering that would make it more flowing

dannagiusy64

Thanks guys, you were helpful. I haven't been able to get the effect I want yet, but I'm working on it with tests 

The Blurst of Times said:

It's probably going to be a combination of gravity/air resistance settings, maybe changing the sim settings on different cloth as well, coupled with a change in the angle of your character for some kind of flowing + floaty movement.

You can use primitive planes as a barrier to act as the water surface (when simulating at an angle).

It is kind of a complex concept to work through. Water versus air resistance, all of that.

dannagiusy64

Thanks guys, you were helpful. I haven't been able to get the effect I want yet, but I'm working on it with tests 

M-C said:

dannagiusy64 said:

...If there are also tutorials on how to get to know the simulation panel well, I'm grateful. For example, in that panel there are the Gravity and Air parameters but I don't know what they are for. Thanks in advance for your help

 

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203081/dforce-start-here#latest

This thread hase some good explanations about all dForce related settings.

NorthOf45

In theory, all you need to play with is gravity and air resistance, without changing all the clothing dForce parameters, but being in water would affect them, I'm sure. Maybe start with reducing gravity to close to zero, or even negative, and increase air resistance (limit is set to 1.0, but that can be changed). In real life, the buoyancy of the material will offset the effects of gravity, so the net effect is quite low, even negative for things that float. You could add a wind node or two to give some "air" movement. The clothes should lag behind any movement of the figure, when moving into a pose, or between poses, like they are being dragged through water. I tried a quick simulation, and it actually works quite well, but the setup and initial conditions will have a big impact on the results.

dannagiusy64

So you advise me to lower the air resistance as well as the gravity. If you do the simulation in a swimming pool, for example, are the results better? I don't have a suitable product in the gallery, but I went to see this https://www.daz3d.com/jw-3d-water-props and this https://www.daz3d.com/rigged-water-iray-2 ;

NorthOf45 said:

In theory, all you need to play with is gravity and air resistance, without changing all the clothing dForce parameters, but being in water would affect them, I'm sure. Maybe start with reducing gravity to close to zero, or even negative, and increase air resistance (limit is set to 1.0, but that can be changed). In real life, the buoyancy of the material will offset the effects of gravity, so the net effect is quite low, even negative for things that float. You could add a wind node or two to give some "air" movement. The clothes should lag behind any movement of the figure, when moving into a pose, or between poses, like they are being dragged through water. I tried a quick simulation, and it actually works quite well, but the setup and initial conditions will have a big impact on the results.

NorthOf45

Raise air resistance. Water is much, much heavier than air, at least when the air isn't moving at 300 kph. You don't necessarily need a water prop, the simulation works with the parameters you supply. If the clothing breaks the water surface, you might need to add a dForce Modifier to alter the weight mapping to cut off the effect at the waterline, since the normal gravity will take effect above the water. That might also need a separate simulation to let the rest behave normally.

This is getting complicated. If the figure is partially out of the water, you can start with a normal simulation to get the dress to settle. Then add the dForce Modifier Weight Node with zero effect above the water and full effect below. Then do the second simulation with low gravity and higher air resistance without resetting the first simulation, if that's even possible... I haven't played around with it very much. The top should remain as it was, and the new simulation should only affect the part in the water. 

 

dannagiusy64

Thanks, very helpful explanations. Maybe a little too complicated for me. I still have a lot to learn from this wonderful program  

NorthOf45 ha detto:

Aumenta la resistenza dell'aria. L'acqua è molto, molto più pesante dell'aria, almeno quando l'aria non si muove a 300 km / h. Non hai necessariamente bisogno di un puntello d'acqua, la simulazione funziona con i parametri che fornisci. Se l'abbigliamento rompe la superficie dell'acqua, potrebbe essere necessario aggiungere un modificatore dForce per alterare la mappatura del peso per eliminare l'effetto sulla linea di galleggiamento, poiché la gravità normale avrà effetto sopra l'acqua. Potrebbe anche essere necessaria una simulazione separata per consentire agli altri di comportarsi normalmente.

Questo sta diventando complicato. Se la figura è parzialmente fuori dall'acqua, puoi iniziare con una normale simulazione per far sistemare l'abito. Quindi aggiungi il dForce Modifier Weight Node con effetto zero sopra l'acqua e pieno effetto sotto. Quindi fai la seconda simulazione con bassa gravità e maggiore resistenza all'aria senza resettare la prima simulazione, se è possibile ... Non ci ho giocato molto. La parte superiore dovrebbe rimanere com'era e la nuova simulazione dovrebbe interessare solo la parte in acqua. 

 

NorthOf45

This thread has all sorts of dForce tips and tricks: How to Use dForce: Creating a Blanket, Draping Clothes on Furniture, and Much More [Commercial] - Daz 3D Forums

Roman_K2

Depending on the displayed angle, you may want to make at least two renders - one gets used for anything above the waterline. The other one represents anything below the water. Maybe play with gel lights for the underwater part, and for sure make use of distortions in an image editor - like Ripple effects, Twirl etc., and adjust the transparency of the water plane for the second render.

I am a bit of a fan of using distorted planes -- like the one in Maclean's Everyday Morphing Primitives set -- temporarily set up at an angle *in front of* the object(s) that are in the water, to generate various abberations and refractions at the collision points. Again I would make a third, separate render and I'd cut and paste little pieces of distorted collision points, here and there.

Btw there is really something going on in the store - Maclean's primitives set appears to be gone, and "primitives" is no longer a good search word. I've practically given up on words like aircraft, airplane, aeroplane and "plane". )-:

A sample "re-do" of a stock image appears below. It was obviously a 3D render with a stock figure like Genesis - notice the rather rigid quality of the garment on the left. On the right I have shaken things up a bit with lots of ripples, and twirling and use of the warp tool(s) available in most image editors. And lots of brightness/contrast and increased Levels.

Look up watercolor painters like Winslow Homer, people who did a lot of ships and boats. Homer did this stuff on the fly, arrrgh.

 

fred9803

Personally I'd make the water not-visible in simulation for a start, then play with the dForce settings. If the cloth doesn't do exactly what you want it to do, you can always manipulate it with MeshGrabber.