Computer troubles
N-RArts
Posts: 1,523
I've been having a lot of problems with my (rendering) computer lately.
I purchased an external HDD a couple of years ago. It wasn't being used that much until last year, when I ran out of space on my computer's HDD
So, here's a "breakdown" of what's happening:
I assume the external HDD is preventing shutdown. On occasions, it's also preventing start-up.
I have to turn off the computer by holding down the "on" button for ten seconds.
It's also been having random restarts. These seem to happen when the computer is downloading a Windows update.
Keyboard stops working (which means I can't save renders).
Mouse isn't working - I've plugged another one in the front, but even that's getting a little "tetchy".
Blue screen of Death - Error code about USB (I can't remember what it was). When that happened, Daz was loading stuff from the external HDD.
Everything on that computer is up to date.
Right now, it's doing a render (which I've also had problems with setting up).
It doesn't look like the UK is coming out of lockdown until the end of March. Which means the computer repair shop is closed until then. A little odd, seeing that some people class their tech as "essential".
EDIT: The computer is Windows 10
Main storage (where Windows is) is on c:\ drive
Everything Daz Studio-related is on the second partition - d:\
The external HDD is connected to a USB at the back of the PC
Oh, and the PC can't keep date or time. It usually displays at being 1-5 days behind (if that makes sense).
There's no back up :/
EDIT 2: Also, I forgot to say that the picture that you get at login (before you enter the pin/password) hasn't changed in over a year. But the picture on the laptop gets changed regularly.
The PC is off the shelf. Its (about) 5 years old. It cost£500-£600. 6GB RAM was switched out for new 16GB RAM cards (8GB each) back in late 2019 (they're the only components that have been changed). CPU and graphics are AMD.
*I've attached specifications.
This is the same model of external HDD that I'm using: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00UNA1OBQ/ref=twister_B08TB4WPQZ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
It's powered by an electrical supply (wall), and not USB. The unit/HDD is sealed, and is impossible to open (without breaking the case).
EDIT 3: If I have to turn off the computer myself, it may not boot into Windows or BIOS, when turned on again (that doesn't happen everytime, though)
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Comments
So is the external HDD connected via USB? Is it your main C:\ drive, or just a secondary storage? Do you have a backup? Is this a Windows or Mac? It's important to describe how everything is configured or else we're just guessing.
If it's Windows, I'd go to the Search box in lower left and type "maintenance", then select Security and Maintenance/Maintenance/View Reliability History, and it should give you a summary of what has happened on your PC in the last few weeks or so, including what updates were installed, whether there were any Application and/or Windows failures, etc.
Also, if you suspect that the HDD is having problems, in File Explorer right click on the drive, select Properties, and under the Tools tab select Check, and it might tell you if there are any errors.
Do these problems occur only when the external HDD is connected/running?
I've updated my original post.
I never knew about the maintenance thing. Although I've just had a look at it, and it's... a little worrying.
Windows seems to be the problem. Its not shutting down properly. Plus, there are hardware errors which seem to be associated with Windows.
I've also been having problems with Chrome, too (Not responding).
Most of the time, it's when the external HDD is running. But, I've just done a reliability check, and the problem seems to be with Windows.
The clock sounds suspicious... I would understand it reseting itself to whatever it considers being the start of times, but being some days behind... Very suspicious... (possible bug alert)
Does your external HDD have it's own power source or is it powered through the USB?
Do you know the manufacturer of the drive inside the USB enclosure (not the brand on the enclosure)?
Did you try the HDD check I suggested? "In File Explorer right click on the drive, select Properties, and under the Tools tab select Check, and it might tell you if there are any errors." And you're saying you have only one HDD, which is the external one connected via USB, and it holds C\: and D\:? Does that mean you're running Windows 10 via a USB connection?
As far as the clock, did you set it to update automatically?
Could be bad RAM, it can cause all kinds of problems, might be an idea to test it:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/how-to-test-ram
PC-Doctor for Windows is made by a company making professional hardware testing equipment, it's cheap and can test your whole system for problems:
https://www.pc-doctor.com/solutions/consumer-end-users
The list of what it "could be" is about 3 miles long. But first you need to minimize and isolate, rather than going down every possible rabbit hole.
Just sayin'.
Off-the-shelf computer? Which brand? Custom built? By whom? Home built? How old is it? Cheap system or expensive system? What kind of power load total? (i.e. How much RAM, what model CPU? Which model of graphics card? Number of internal storage drives? Wattage and brand of power supply?) My recent personal experience with spontaneous shutdowns turned out to be my 10 year old poorly ageing power supply. But with a new power supply, actually a bit smaller than the original (i.e. 450w vs 500w) though, and it works perfectly now.
Alternatively, if you've recently added an external hard drive that gets its power from the USB port instead of the wall, that would add to the load on the power supply.
If you've added a hefty graphics card to the original computer, then that could choke the power supply too.
But as pointed out by others, it could be RAM going bad, not usual, but it happens. Especially with a weak or wonky power supply.
Have you changed CPU chip from the original? Does your motherboard need a BIOS update?
And it could be just as simple as corrupted Win10 or data files from a hard drive malfunction (possibly caused by power supply problems). Error logs could reveal some clues.
Clean inside or dusty?
Hot (or recently hotter) environment?
Does the cat sleep on top of it?
Failing all those possibilities then the motherboard itself becomes suspect.
My mind races and trips over itself thinking of possibilites but without more information or poking at the guts personally, this is the best I've got for now.
Losing time (and weird other stuff) happened to one of my HPs several years back and also to my late mother-in-laws computer back in 2015. After replacing the CMOS battery ($10 or so easy to replace) in each of those cases they were both good to go.
The CMOS battery looks ilike two two nickels stacked and has a flat dull finish with some small engravings. You may need to locate the battery and remove it to know the one you need if it is a custom build otherwise google the machine you own to ensure it is removeable (a few are not). I bought my CMOS at target, walmart or staples (can't remember which place).
Edited to add above CMOS info. Batteries do differ per brand. To get more info google bad cmos. Also here is a link but it may not be the right battery for your pc. When you open a case don't do it on a carpeted floor and don't just reach in with both hands. You must touch/hold the outside case with one hand on the metal to ground it. This is so you don't zap anything inside. A little static can hurt the pc. With Covid this may have to be a do it yourself fix, and this should be a very cheap fix.
Yep, good catch. Bad CMOS battery can cause problems. Clock issues would be one of them. One of its duties is to keep the clock running when the computer's unplugged. Most CMOS batteries are type "2032". Available in almost any drugstore. Semi-expensive little buggers. Especially if you buy just one. Cheaper by the dozen but unless you're a computer repair person, you'll probably never need more than one in your lifetime.
I've had computers sitting on the shelf for several years and yet the CMOS battery is still good. I've had 15 year old machines that never had their CMOS battery replaced and worked just fine until the day they were permanently retired.
Note: Removing the CMOS battery for more than a couple of minutes causes the CMOS memory to reset and might give you some errors when you first turn on the computer after replacing with a new battery. But unless you've made deliberate configuration changes to your BIOS settings, about all you'll have to do is reset the clock time.
I've added information about the External HDD to my first post.
I can get into the casing as its sealed shut. But, I've checked the label, and the manfacturer is a Chinese company. At the unit was assembled in Thailand. There are lots of little company symbols on the information sticker. Not call can be made out (EAC, Nemko, Nyer, VCI).
Sorry. I'm panicking and forgetting stuff.
I did run a check, and Windows says that it can't find anything wrong with the external HDD.
As for the clock. I do set it to automatic, but that ends up not making a difference.
I'll have to do that tomorrow. Thank you for the links.
I've edited my first post, and added a list of the PC's specifications.
The computer was serviced last year. I keep the vents as clear as possible. The cats don't sleep on it. I do get worried about the PC overheating, but Bios says that the computer is fine. I've added a little thing about BIOS to my original post.
I have been thinking about replacing the CMOS battery/batteries, but going into the computer fills me with dread.
With these levels of problems I'd be thinking there was something amiss with the OS itself. Clean re-install of Win10 might be in order.
I would recommend installing a fresh copy of windows 10 on a new SSD. Also replace the cmos coin as stated above. You can take the HD out of the usb enclosure and use that for your 3d content and data.
Sounds like CMOS to me. I'd start there. Replacing the battery is one of the easier things you can do inside the case. If you don't want to do it, do you know someone who feels comfortable doing it?
Laurie
If the CMOS battery was failing or has failed, the calendar and time would be reset to the beginning of times, which may for example be 01.01.1980, 00:00. It doesn't cause the kind of symptoms OP is describing.
The calendar issues are strongly pointing towards virus infection, the other issues towards hardware, not software problems and when the foundations of your house are failing, you either fix the foundations or leave everything as it is, you don't tear down the building and start building a new one on the same failing foundations - Ie. re-installing W10 is the last thing to do since with the failing foundation (hardware) it may render everything gone for good.
Seagate is actually one of the two HDD manufacturers I prefer, but... It may be that I removed the exact same external drive from my system before christmas for strange symptoms, like failing to POST (computer not starting).
Once I did get a warning about problems with USB power preventing the computer from starting... Which got me thinking about the externally powered USB drive and since replacing the externally powered drive with one that gets it's power from the USB, the problems have not yet returned.
One thing you could try is to check if your USB accessories are all behind the same USB controller, that can be done in Device Manager, (View->Devices by Connection) and if that's the case, trying to divide them to different controllers (if the motherboard has more than one), ie. try the different USB connectors.
I'll get back if something else comes to mind, but for now, I may need to do some work too
Edit: It seems that W10 doesn't need a virus to mess up the time, it's just one of many windows "features"...
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-system-time-jumps-backward
The 'freezing' business when you render in DAZ is almost always the computer becoming I/O bound reading models off your storage into RAM, RAM gets full, Windows must page and grow page into virtual RAM on disk, and that means longs waits waiting to write out to disk. You can improve by going into advanced settings in DAZ Studio iRay Renderer and substrating 2 to 4 CPU hyperthreads from the count of hyperthreads in your DAZ Studio config and also checking 'CPU Affinity'.
Having done that then try these:
As I build a AMD CPU/GPU desktop last Jan 2020 and got some bluescreens I have a reasonable guess what may be wrong with your computer that you can try and doing so definately will not remove functionality your computer is currently using and has a good chance of stopping your USB problems.
a) If you have anything related to RAID enabled in your computer BIOS disable it.
b) If you have anything related to StoreMI enabled in your computer BIOS disable it.
c) Uninstall and delete the drivers and software when you do so any RAID drivers/software in Windows
d) Uninstall and delete the drivers and software when you do so any StoreMI (StorMI) drivers/software in Windows
e) reboot.
Test for a few days or a week or so. Are problems gone? Yes. You are done. No. Try these steps.
a) Go into your Power Management Settings and then into the Advanced Power Management Settings and navigate down to the USB section and turn off allowing Windows to turn on/off the USB devices to save power. This is sort of a last ditch thing though as any modern USB device should be bug free enough to not need such a change in power management. Still, I can't deny, in my own Gigabyte motherboard for AMD B450 Chipset the hardware management they keep messing up and having to patch with new BIOS versions has been the USB bus management!
After reading that your login image doesn't change, I'm thinking that you do have software problems rather than hardware, but did you ever choose a specific login image instead of letting the system pick one randomly on that computer? I'm not sure you can actually do that and I never do, but it might be some obscure customization setting.
Cost is OK (not an el cheapo), power load should be OK.
Also, hearing that your computer is only 5 years old, I don't think your CMOS battery needs to be replaced.
But if it comes to it and you need to peek inside the computer, relax. There is no "dread" in the computer. It leaks out through the vent holes.
Now, back in my day, sticking your hand in the back of a tube type television with thousands of volts of dread just waiting to attack you, was truly dangerous.
But these days, the computer has more reason to fear you, than you it. Just treat it gently, pet it on the metal case to neutralize and leave your dread(static) outside of the computer and it will be fine. Go for it, it's an adventure. You need a screwdriver or two, a small flashlight, and a little common sense.
Note: Once you spy your CMOS battery, getting it out is the next challenge. Some of them have a little lever or tab on the side of the socket that presses to release its hold on the coin shaped battery. Don't use metal tools to pry or manipulate the battery (common sense). Fingers, ice cream stick, sucker stick, a dulled toothpick, etc... Putting it back in needs to be done correctly too. Small side down, big side up. Just put it in place and press gently until it pops back in.
Even if you don't tinker with anything on the inside, just opening the case is like taking a ride in a skydiving airplane without actually jumping yourself. You get a small adventure and a good view. I opened a computer once and there was a family of mice living in there.
And if you get the case open, please take a look at the power supply (squarish box in the corner with lots of thick bundles of wires leading to it) and let us know the brand, model, and wattage rating (usually in big black numbers prominent on the label). And while you're looking at it, try running the computer with the side off and see if the power supply's fan turns, it should at least start turning when the system first turns on, but may stop if it isn't needed to keep the power supply cool. But if the power supply fan never turns at all, even at the start, then it might be overheating and causing problems. Also, while closely observing your system from inside and out, are your case fan(s) running? Heat is a computer killer.
When dealing with computers remember that there are only two moving parts in a computer, the fans, and the hard drives. Five years of continuous use wear on spinning things is about all you should expect from them. Anything more is a gift of fate.
Will do replies in a minute. I just wanted to say that I've done a fresh install of Windows 10. It was a little slow, but it was working before I started to download and install updates.
It's been trying to restart for (about) 30 mins, now. I've not attached the External HDD yet. But the computer is playing up without it. This isn't looking good :(
Update: It failed to restart, and went into sleep mode.
Edit: I can't do anything about the CMOS issue until Monday (batteries coming from Amazon).
I'm confused. So is there only one HDD, the external one connected via USB and holding both the C:\ and D:\ drives? Or is the external drive just a storage drive?
I'm doing a clean install of Windows 10 right now. The "straw that broke the camels back" was the keyboard "phantom typing" "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" (you get the idea). It wasn't going to stop. The computer wouldn't shutdown either. I had to do something, and that was the easiest thing to do.
Sadly not. If we weren't in lockdown, the PC would've gone to the repair shop tomorrow, and the owner could've dealt with it. But, no. Everything "tech-related" in this house is down to me.
I did a virus check before I did the clean install of Windows 10. It didn't find anything. I like to be on top of that stuff.
I've been considering a new external HDD, anyway. It'll just be powered by USB (I haven't had any problems with those in the past). I never understood why an external HDD would need another power supply (I'm sure someone on here would know).
As for the USB accessories, I'll get a screenshot and post it later.
It is keeping time at the moment. But I've ordered a couple of batteries, just in case it happens again.
Thank you for your help :)
Crikey! Messing around with BIOS?! I barely know what I'm doing out of BIOS. I think I'll leave messing with BIOS, until I've tried everything else (I'm convinced that if I poke around too much, it'll never work again).
EDIT: I've just been looking at BIOS, and I can't find any of that ^^'
I will check out the Power Management Settings. It's still downloading updates at the moment.
**(More to reply to, back later).
Mice... Wow... Believe it or not, I've often thought/wondered if that was possible (mainly in the past few weeks when the PC's issues were getting worse).
I've already had three adventures into the side of the computer. I didn't enjoy any of them ^^'
I'll make a checklist of the things that you suggested to look at, and give it a go at some point.
My Windows XP PC lasted ten years. I'm assuming that this one can do the same. Then again, it (the XP machine) wouldn't run Daz Studio. Plus, the CMOS in that computer didn't start failing until it had reached ten years (or so).
Sorry. Panic combined with social anxiety doesn't mix well.
So the computer has two partitions. One partition has c:\ on it, and the second partition has d:\. The computer is meant to have 1TB. But the memory is divided between those partitions (not equally, though). The external HDD is separate.
UPDATE: So, the computer has one more update to install (20H2). It'll have to be done tomorrow, as it's bedtime here, and I had other posts to reply to.
The mouse and keyboard still aren't working as they should. In internet Explorer (as that computer no longer has Chrome), I thought I was going to have another repeat of the continous "a"s that happed before the clean install, but this time with the "r" key. Thankfully, it stopped after seven ("r"s).
I haven't tried the external HDD. I want to get all of the updates sorted first, as I don't want to put anymore strain on the system.
On the plus side, at least I now have that fresh install of Daz Studio that I was after. ^^'
All of this has given me a massive headache. *Yay, stress!*
Sounds like you've got some sticky keys on your keyboard. New keyboards are not expensive. If a fresh OS install doesn't fix your problems then your hardware, or part of it, has probably given up the will to live.
I've got my fingers crossed for you. Keep us updated.
With the OS reinstallation there was a real danger and possibility for the computer refusing to find windows at all, happy for you that it didn't happen because the remedies after that usually require wiping the whole disk (both partitions) clean and starting up from zero (bye bye everything you had on it) - "Reinstall the OS, install all the updates and latest drivers" is an easy way for the computer support for getting rid of a person at least for a while, but that advice is very dangerous when there are hardware problems which has been the case all along.
As fred9803 says, try another keyboard or buy a new one if you don't have an other one to try - Sticky keys can also result in strange problems when the buffers are filled with perpetually repeating characters.
Removing the external drive was not necessarily enough, as the problems with USB power levels resulting from the external power source may have messed up your BIOS information - To fix the remaining problems, the BIOS should be reset, ie. returned to it's original values - There may be a button in the back ot the computer or on the motherboard for doing that, or one way to do it is to remove the power cord and the CMOS battery (Which is still NOT the problem) for ... say 15 minutes before putting them back.
Keyboard problems as well as mouse problems can be caused by a weak battery if you're using wireless keyboard and/or mouse.. Also, weird problems of repeating or sticking can be caused by weak reception of the wireless kbd/mouse signal. I had a customer once at a housecall where her computer would work fine when I got there but would fail intermeittently after I left. It turns out I was left handed and she was right handed and the mouse signal just would make it reliably the extra 18 inches when she took over. I found a short USB extension and moved the mouse receiver from under the heavy wooden desk to a place on the desktop.
Oh yes... The handicapped mice (missing their tail) and wireless keyboards, are a source of endless fun.
I'll stick to PS2 for keyboards as long as I can - for one thing they're not affected by other hardware occupying the USB bandwidth causing typing delays. And they always work in any situation, like with boot options or DOS software. USB is terrible in general, I can't count how many times I've experienced that a device that used to work suddenly gives the "not recognized" error when plugging it in, and then there's usually no other way to fix it than reinstalling the device.
Sorry I'm a little late replying, but after the stress of the past couple of days, I needed a break.
I've got one around here somewhere (if it happens again). But since all of the updates have been sorted, the mouse that wasn't working (which is plugged into the back of the PC), has started to work. I don't get it.
Thank you, I will. And Thank you for the help :)
Wow... It's pretty awful to think that I could've caused more damage (which just proves that I have no idea what I'm doing).
I bought a laptop around 2010, pre-owned (it was the computer that helped me get into Daz Studio). It was Windows Vista, and a massive pain in the a... It got to a point where it was going into the repair shop (at least) three times a year. The laptop would have a clean install of Windows. It would be great for a few months. Then it would be back to the shop. So I figured that, when things start to go wrong, do a clean install of Windows.
At least I won't have to buy one (keyboard). I've got a "new one" around here... Somewhere...
The computer did slow down when the external HDD was attached. It (Windows/PC) displayed that it was restarting, when I had told it to shutdown. I've got the replacement batteries for CMOS. So, I'll get in there in the next few days.
I don't have a wireless keyboard and mouse. I don't have the patience do deal with that stuff. Heck, I hate wireless game controllers.
I've got a mouse that I use on my laptop, and every so often I get the "not recognised" message appear. It's wired. But I think the metal connections are wearing out on both the mouse, and the USB slot that it gets plugged into.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Something that was never installed last year, was the 20H2 update. I thought it had. But, only after seeing the background of the PC after it has installed that update a couple of days ago. It was apparent that it didn't update. Whether the update got corrupted last year, and that's screwed up the system a little bit... I just don't know.
I've attached a couple of screens to this post regarding USBs. One shows all of the USBs slots that the PC has (screenshot named "device"). The other (screen shot names "optional") confuses me. Why does the computer need USB updates from two (or possibly three) different manufacturers/makers? Which one do I install?
All of them. Why so many? - Maybe the chipset on your motherboard doesn't support the latest USB standards and that is why the motherboard manufacturer has added one that does, there may also be one that has been added to support the legacy USB standards (good for keyboards and mice), and in general the more devices you have behind one controller, the bigger the chance of them conflicting with each others.
Okay. Thanks for explaining.
I had a try at installing those updates... And it messed up the computer.
It said to restart the computer, but neither the mouse or keyboard was responding. So, I held the power button down for 10 seconds to turn the computer off. After that, it wouldn't boot. It ended up repairing what damage had been caused, and gave me a message about "removing some recently installed updates to recover your device from Start up failure". I guess I won't be trying that again.
Since that update was removed. I've been getting that "not recognised" pop up message, with the mouse that's plugged into the back of the computer (which is something I've not been seeing, although the mouse hasn't worked for months). So something has definitely changed in the past few days.
EDIT: It's not the mouse (or just the mouse) that's not being recognised. The external HDD can't be found/recognised either.