goes hard daz 3D
mateskulala
Posts: 130
Hello I have one question what traps me and that is that daz goes easy until I put a piece there for example Bad Beast or the dark lord, Carnivorous Plant HD , yeti HD for genesis 8 . I have a feeling when moving me quite a lot of opposition do not know who it can be ?? If you thought my ntb wouldn't make it, I'd be here to dam things that're all right. Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Cpu
Intel Core i7 @ 2.60GHz
Coffee Lake 14nm Technology
Ram
32.0GB
Motherboard
HP 8603 (U3E1)
Graphics
Generic PnP Monitor (1920x1080@60Hz)
4095MB NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 (HP)
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1863GB Western Digital WDC WD20SPZX-60UA7T0 (SATA (SSD))
953GB Intel Raid 0 Volume (RAID (SSD))
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Comments
polygons, the more polygons the more stress for cpu
also wire views, smooth wire, texture wire are heavy
vegetation in general its heavy
hairs and fur are heavy
4 subdivision on g8 also
when setting up a scene, posing, mooving, etc hide unecessary details, grass foliage etc, hide fur and hairs, lower the subd of characters
you can also, display in parameter tab, set up things to be visible in render only
So all you have to do is not make it visible? hairs and so on hair polygons and so it is enough not to make it visible as if? because I don't get it very much.
Are you trying to add or move items around while in iray preview mode? This will always induce a noticable lag even with just one or a few simple figures.
If it's slow in Perspective view, try a camera with Headlamp turned off instead.
Not. I move the figure in the texture shader window all ine products idu very easily and well animating . Only the ones I mentioned have a minor problem. Otherwise, I have a question for you since I purchased an unlicensed product, which is just below how I can normally animate? but I can't sell it or use it to raise money, can I? They've got it pretty written out there, but I don't fully understand it because it's not written there as stupid as I am :D :D :D so I asked the question so that I would understand.
Never stupid to ask questions!!! ;)
You can use anything you purchase here for 2D images you create - and you could publish those images, animate and make a movie, anything you want and you could sell those works for money. (Examples might include: making a comic, using a character in a TV commercial or selling posters of your art online).
You only need the Interactive License if you are going to use the model in something like a 3D video game where someone else interacts with the model and could extract the original geometry.
You cannot share or sell the original geometry in any way. You cannot alter a model, texture or product and sell it.
Hope this helps.
Other use of interactive license is sharing your asset on U3D format inside a Photoshop PDF to OTHERS.
It might help the view port lag if you change your optimization setting to "memory" instead the default settings "Auto" You find this setting under your render settings tab click optimization scroll to bottom and change auto to memory see screen shot & see if that helps with the viewport lag.
The rest of the issues your having I would lay odds are all the normal maps in your characters. Normals Maps are usually 2 - 3 x larger than regular 4k texture maps if your making animations removing normal maps is a must.
It might serve you well to get scene Optimizer to help with that https://www.daz3d.com/scene-optimizer
I use the carnivorous plant in this animations and was able to render in Iray around 12 seconds a frame after removing the normal maps and a few more optimizations tricks and I am just using GTX 1080 GPU's . So optimization helps tons
Click to Play ~ Best viewed in 1080HD
OP is talking about viewport performance, as far as i can tell.
The options you are referencing are about render performance, not Viewport performance, unless using iray preview mode.
The "Instancing optimization" doesn't come into play until render.
The option for Viewport performance is under Preferences(Edit>Preferences>Interface(tab), or F2).
The two main settings to adjust, under th OpenGL section, for Viewport performance are,
Display optimization, now set to 'Best' by default,
reducesincreases the vram used and can improve viewport response,but can introduce strange colors, disappearing geometry, and other visual "issues", that have no bearing on the render.Texture resources, moving the slider to Performance also reduces vram useage, but again can introduce other visual issues, that have no bearing on the render.
The other settings will increase/decrease vram usage and viewport performance.
Normal maps.
Like bump and displacement maps, it doesn't have any impact on viewport performance.
While removal, may, speed up renders, there is an equivalent loss of detail(quality) in the product, as normal, bump and displacement are used to add details to lower geometry models.
Edit note: Corrected technical flub regarding "Display optimization".
Display optimization increases vram utilized, but does not introduce the errors i initially asserted.
First I should mention I am using daz studio 4.12.0.86
And you are right that in setting the display performance levels do help with view port for weaker gpu's for lag. & If your running Iray In a view port. in preview That is equivalent to pre rendering. making yo right that it using vram . But even in texture mode you have some amount of vrams being used to hold the scene. I don't know where you got the idea that instances & textures do not effect the view port, view.
And you can get lag in Texture mode with out running or loading iray or open GL. That has nothing to do with the daz UI . A good example of this is Howie Farkes https://www.daz3d.com/the-harpwood-trail-for-daz-studio where you do not even need the openGL or Iray preview on and still have View port lag and it is recommended that the optimization setting under the render tab be set to memory to reduce the view port lag by that was what was recomeneded fix https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4069166/#Comment_4069166
Optimizations does work for instancing. & works well for having a having number of characters loaded in a group.. specially if your pre rendering or running opengl in the view port for pre-viewing.. setting the optimization to memeory before setting to openGL & removing normals maps can assist in reducing the lag in the view port in large scenes even in texture mode. .. Again load Howie farkes set above and you will see what I mean. That has nothing to do with the preference settings under the edit tab that is used for the UI. Though turning off anti-aliasing does help the lag some when loading up your scene .
I work with daz everyday with animations and that has been my real life experience.
By turning off some instances & Removing Normal Maps, I am NOT talking about textures, will help with the drag in moving the camera around in the view port in large scenes in texture mode, Iray or opengl makes no difference. Specially if your using a GTX gpu. Your still putting a load on the GPU within the view port and that is why you remove normals to reduce the load. you can always put them back when done if they are needed.
So I have know idea why you think that iray or texture mode in the view port is not effected by the texture maps load or instances present. because you can clearly see that it does if you GPUZ.. https://www.techpowerup.com/download/gpu-z/
Edited for spelling I am very dyslexic
Demo to prove my point using my EVGA monitor tool
empty scene with no preview in texture mode. using 700mb of vram
Scene with no view preview turned on in texture mode. 2.8 gigs of vram
Screen cap of using Aux View Port with iray preview with OpenGL using 8.2 gigs in the view port,.
Screen cap Is showing the image being render in Iray Using 10Gigs of Vram.
These screen caps don't lie this is with 2 GTX 1080Ti
A huge Image that I render for my demo lots of people, props and instances. and this scene was a bit laggy in texture mode and changing the render optimization to memory help resolve some of this view port lag
1920 x 1080 HD click for full size
Here is another demo,
This first screen capture is taken from a dual monitor set up I wanted to show all the instances loaded into the scene. I am using the Harpwood trail set i mentioned above. loaded its only using 800 mb of vram in texture mode. and i can barely move the camera around its very laggy. , then change the optimization setting to memory and the camera moves much easier. the harpwood trail set is 90% instances light loading not much for texutres to the scene . But impossible to move camera around in texture mode until i changed the optimization setting to memory
this is the scene in preview mode with Iray not opengl and I can still move the camera freely. in preview with iray
Same scene in render mode.
Rendered scene done in a little over 4 minutes 1920 x 1080 HD click to enlarge,
I stand by my comment try changing the optimization setting & removing normals until you no longer get lag.you have nothing to loose by trying it
Sorry Ivy, but you really don't know what you're talking about.
First, render settings and ui settings are separate things that don't, directly, effect each other.
Second, the Viewport is generated using OpenGL, this is sperate from the option in render settings. Changing your render engine does not change your UI performance.
Third, i specifically stated Bump, Displacement, and Normal maps, not textures in general. While they will use vram/sysram, they(bump, displacement and normal) are not used in the viewport's draw calculations. I also said nothing about instances.
Fourth, your examples don't prove what you think they prove. Basically, they just show that Ds uses system resources and you don't understand what you're looking at.
Fifth, There is nothing in that thread you linked to that supports your claim. Howiefarkes specifically stated that it was about render performance, nothing else.
To demonstrate my point(s).
Taking your suggestion, I loaded up the Harpwood trail for DS by Howiefarkes, and this is what i found.
This set piece has approximately 1.2 million polygon(Scene info tab) with 13 total textures used(surfaces tab), by default.
With ui settings for performance(minimal lag), it requires approximately 87MB of vram(for display), and 640MB of system ram.(images 1-3, deduct the ram utilization of the previous images to obtain the derived value)
With default render setting and pixel size set to 1000x1000(square preset), rendering in iray, it requires 2252MB of vram and 1020MB of system ram.(image 4, cmd window and task manager respectively)
Removing all textures, the set piece requires 86MB of vram and 635MB of system ram.(image 5)
Rendering with no textures, 2242MB vram and 955MB system ram.(image 6)
Conclusion: Harpwodd trail's textures, of any type, have a negligable impact on resource utilization, it is the amount of geometry that is the most important aspect, in this case.
Instance optimization(Render settings>optimization).
By default, Instance Optimization is set to "auto", and will determine, based on amount of instances present in the scene, whether to use 'Speed' or 'memory'
If fewer instances are present it will default to speed, using more system resources(vram and system ram), if more(relative) are present, than it will use memory, reducing the system resources used, at render.
In the case of Harpwood trail, auto selects memory.
In switching from auto to memory, the same system resources were used. There was no changes from previous reported numbers.
When switched to 'Speed', the resource utilization, at render, jumped exponentially, to the point that neither my 6GB or 12GB gpus could handle it and i was glad I have 72GB of system ram.
The total system ram used was 41GB up from the 1GB when auto/memory was selected.(image 7)
Testing the impact of these settings on render speed, the results i got were 59m for speed and 77m for memory. This was tested on cpu as speed exceeds the 12gb of gpu ram i have.
UI settings and their impact.
In testing with the Harpwood trail, other than the "Display optimization" setting and "texture resources", the other settings had a neglible impact on system resoures or lag.
With "display optimization" set to "none", the vram utilization dropped by ~50MB, from 87MB to 23MB.(image 8)
This is what it is intended to do, it allows better performance(less lag) by loading more geometry into the vram of the display gpu.
This change did, however, make working in DS impossible due to the lag.
Changing the "Texture resources" from performance to quality, added ~20MB to the vram load(UI, not render). And had a negligable impact on lag, as far as i could tell.(image 9)
With no textures applied, there was no change in resources used or lag.
Conclusion: Setting the UI preferences to all off, Display optimization to 'Best' and Texture resources to 'performance' will reduce the lag, regardless of the relative "strength" of the gpu, but does require a higher amount of vram.
Side note: if you're trying to eek out every MB on your gpu, if using a single gpu for display and render, I'd suggest changing the Display optimization to "none" when you go to render. It'll be less responsive, but, may make the difference if something will fit or not.
Render speed and normal maps
As a quick test i loaded up the Carnivorous plant and did a default and a no normal map render test
At 1000x1000, the cranivorous plant took 63s to render with normals and 36s without.
Vram usage was 4616MB and 2928MB respectively.
On first blush that sounds impressive, but the reality is that it only saved about 10 or so seconds, as i had to switch from the parameters tab to the surfaces tab, select the plant and scroll down to the normal maps and switch the map to none.
For an individual render, i probably wouldn't bother, for an animation, maybe, depending on my quality requirements.
I might also remove them for the vram savings, but that would depend on the particular scene and which render box i was using.
I would recommend if one needs these options regularly to save the plant, without the normals, as a scene subset(be sure to note it's missing the normals in the preset and rename the scene object before saving) then either copy/move the preset to the plant directory or use a link file placed in the directory.
Final
Being someone that uses DS as a part of my business income, often 12-16hrs a day 7 days a week, even i mis-remember or misinterpret things on occasion.
In this case i mis-remembered that the Disaplay optimization option increases vram utilization for the ui. Oops.
I'd also forgotten what the impact of Instance optimization had, as i don't usee excessive amounts of instances, regularly.
This is one of the reasons i do testing like i did with harpwood trail, fairly regularly. I don't just install things, drop them in a scene and hope for the best.
Knowing when to change render settings, UI settings, deleting/adding particular textures or assets, hiding/showing particular assets, etc, and understanding the impact on system resources, both when working and rendering, is a must when working in any 3d software.
Peace.