Animation issues - hand and fingers

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Hi team, following on from my last post I have been persevering with both 4.12 and 4.15 versions of DS, again referencing threads advised. I'm getting better results but still cannot get the hands/fingers to retain their movements eg. open to fist and back, even if I manually add keyframes. After posing and scrubbing the timeline, the hands revert back to being open default palm. On a couple of tutorials I have watched it seems to work perfectly but not when I do it! any advice?

Thanks

Robinson

There's a key on the timeline somewhere that's doing it and your goal is to find that key.  It's probably in properties/pose controls/hands (look in the left side tree view of the timeline) under the character, dependent upon how you've been posing them.  If you open out the tree you'll be able to see where the key is/which property it is.  It's hard to "debug" this for you without seeing your timeline of course.

Ivy

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00 said:

Hi team, following on from my last post I have been persevering with both 4.12 and 4.15 versions of DS, again referencing threads advised. I'm getting better results but still cannot get the hands/fingers to retain their movements eg. open to fist and back, even if I manually add keyframes. After posing and scrubbing the timeline, the hands revert back to being open default palm. On a couple of tutorials I have watched it seems to work perfectly but not when I do it! any advice?

Thanks

I am just guessing ,But It sounds like you maybe using aniblocks or Animated presets in the timeline?    Those premade animations tend to keep the hands neutral and you would need to make your corrections on a subtrack on the animate2 timeline  create a blank aniblock on the subtrack and keyframe your hand corrections as needed in the blank aniblock. same with feet legs arms neck had etc. The do have premade aniblocks for this issues .  https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-alive

If your not using aniblocks and you hand keyframed the animation on the daz timeline then it sounds like you might have the hands translation/rotation setting pinned somewhere.

 

Ivy

Oh and one last thing I forgot to mentioned. If you "Baked" the animations into the timeline  and then are trying to make hand corrections afterwards its going to be one heck of a lot of work to make the corrections work if at all..  My expreince has been once you bake your animation the best you can do and save the animation as a aniblock and start over.

baked animation into the animat2 timeline or the daz native timeline are permanent. and requires a do over.

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Hi guys, thank you for the response.

Liz, I am only using the timeline to animate and have checked that I have nothing pinned, in fact I disabled pinning on all to make sure.

Robinson, I attach a picture of my timeline. I have once again tried to make a fist and back again and manually adding keyframes but still no joy, I have even tried highlighting all hand and fingers to pose them, it does not happen automatically as it does in Liz's or othe tutorials I have watched. Still nothing, even though the keyframes do appear. Where you see the scrubber on the timeline it should be a fist.

Ivy

My name is Ivy not Liz

if your using 4.15 that maybe the problem I can't say.  I am still using 4.12  I didn't bother messing with 4.15. because of having to really need a RTX gpu to use it for IRAY   so yea it maybe 4.15 giving you problems  because its working on my daz version 4.12.0.86   fine. I can't advise on whats not broke on my end.  sorry I cant be more help

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Sorry Ivy, it's may age! When I was looking for your tutorial I even thought then it was Liz!

I have tried it on 4.12 but spurious results there. I still have to add keyframes manually for the hand but the animation defaults to 0 pose when I play or scrub it. All other limbs, arms, legs etc are fine. Strange

No worries, thanks for the input anyway

Ivy

Like I said its functioning they way it always has on my end. .I meant to ask is this happening using a regular genesis8  or the Genesis 8.1  I think there is some minor differences between the 2 genesis's but i thought it only effect facial expressions.

So the issue your having is If you start on keyframe zero and scroll the scrubber down 60 keyframes and create a keyframe by applying the fist dial morph .  that when you scrub the dial agian it reset the hand dial?

That sure sounds like a reactions to a baked animation. ..   You prolly have tried this but i have to ask.   Did you try loading a new character thats different to test it maybe a gm3 and see if you have the same issue? 

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

I'm using regular genisis 8 and yes, I dial the morphs but in terms of the hand, it does not add Keyframes automatically so I do it manually. Then when scrubbing or playing the hands default to 0 pose. I will try with different figures now

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Update: I have tried with G2 and G3 figures but results are still the same. Where next I wonder...?

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Another update: So, I've been trying all sorts of different things and have found a solution, I don't know if it's the correct one but it works for me. I have been trying to use a hand beckoning to another figure which involves opening and closing fingers. After posing the hand as a fist I returned to open hand by using the Alt key and clicking on the bend value. No, this appears to disable all previous keyframes for that body part, and this applies to all parts. I had to manually return the fist pose to open hand to retain the keyframes. So, no Alt/click to be used when posing for animation, well not for me anyway

I have made a short video to illustrate what was happening but it won't upload for some reason...I hope the words are enough

Ivy

Its really weird that your having this issue. because I can't seem to duplicate it

what you described on what going on is a issue that only happens when aniblocks or a animation has been baked into the timeline .. I even checked all the translate/rotations settings in the timeline properties panel & pins, and you already stated you have the pins off so really puzzling to what caused this issue.  I am sure at this point there is some setting that must have been clicked on/off or something.  but I'll be darn if i can find the setting that would cause a animation keyframe to not be recorded into the dope-sheet. or clear or not remain recorded after being create.  that is something that usually happens with aniblocks or animated presets being used. not raw animation that has just been keyframed.   So Sir you truly have a enigma. and humbly i thought i knew everything about the daz timeline. But apparently this issues proves I don't no what I think I know

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Hi Ivy, you underestimate yourself. I now know that I can only link to a video here so I have uploaded my video now. Hopefully it will help, sorry about the sound!

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Also, the video is not about the dog rescue centre I made a video for! Not sure how that got there. Damn! Got rid of the other video but I've posted it twice now

Ivy

There must be something clicked off or on in the timeline setting somehwere. because I can create a keyframe just by activating a dial without having to manually add in keyframes.  your demo acts like that the keyframe being created are not visable to the dopesheet

lets try something for the heck of it     I have no idea how or if this would effect your timeline to stop functioning or not because using any of theses setting should not effect key frame creation.. but it a starting point try

here is a screen capture of my timeline settings I use  try these settings and see if anything changes.

 

 

Ivy

Another thing to check or try . click your parameters tabs and in the far upper right corner click the little tab in the screen cap and scroll down until you see "lock" click it and on that list scroll down to & click unlock all selected nodes  you can do this easy if you open the perimeters tab and then use the hot keys shift+ U and then click all selected nodes. in this case it would be the bones in hand pose controls

Doing this step this steps just assures all your bones and nodes are unlocked in case they got locked by accident.

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Hi Ivy, I made the changes you suggested and changing the Types to TRSOH and Object trather than node did then place keyframes on my timeline automatically but as soon as I use Alt key to return any pose to zero, the keyframes diappeared.

I may try reinstalling my DS tomorrow, perhaps I have a bug in there somewhere :(

Ivy

If your using Alt .Hotkey that maybe your problem.

you can see  all the hot keys daz studio uses If you go to EDIT, scroll down the list to View. .. That way you will see all hotkeys available in daz studio .  the alt hotkeys are assigned  for reset.  by using the alt alt key you maybe inadvertently resetting the timeline  So just for a test I would try manually using the dial to bring your hands back to the pose you want instead of alt key 

here are some basic alt hotkey calls

Alt =  CTRL + z  = reset or step back

Alt+]  = reset rotation speed

Alt+[ = reset moving speed

Alt+p = Snap to level or reset to level

Control + Alt+R resets cameras to 0 position

 see my point

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

Yes indeed I think that is the nail on the head, I was using "Alt and clicking on the Hand fist value" to reset to zero. This was why my keyframes were disappearing. I think we have a solution here, many thanks for all your help. Maybe this warning can be on your next tutorial! I found your last one very helpful :)

Many thanks again

Ivy

Glad we got that figured out.one of those Ah Ha moments...lol

malcolmkarpeta_40f9af0b00

You bet