DAZ is losing me

Victor_B

richardandtracy said:

With a number of hobbyists, time making stuff is less of an issue than money. Definitely applies to this hobbiest. I am in the process of modelling a big project & hope it'll be ready by July. But pay for something like it? At the moment I simply couldn't.

Regards,

Richard.

And you will sell it for $5 backs?

McGyver

Not to anyone in particular, but just a thought or random opinion...

Generally most Poser/DAZ assets are way cheaper than items found at stores that sell to non DAZ/Poser artists.

Here's an example of something from a non DAZ/Poser store I'd love to have... A model of a 1972 Pontiac Catalina (a car I own in real life), unless I'm mistaken, the car without an interior or UV maps is $95... With UV maps $300... With interior $600...

I could be totally misreading that, but $600 if you want a full model.

That model is pretty good, and most of the cars on that site are fairly accurate too, and they all run for about the same price... if I had the money, I'd definitely pay that price because to be honest, I know I'm never going to get around to modeling my car... I could make pretty good model, but ultimately the amount of time I'd take to make it on that level I'd just invest too much time in and it really wouldn't be worth it... even at $600, it's kinda worth it it's an obscure vehicle I'm actually amazed someone made a model of and also because I could probably print out an actual physical model too.

But what would that model cost if it was made for DAZ/Poser and sold at DAZ or Renderosity?... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't go for more than $45 tops, complete with interior, moving parts and mapping.

The majority of "good quality" car models average on DAZ and Rendo around $25 and top out at around $45 (there is one I found that was $50, but it's not really a car)...

My point being is... I don't remember... (honestly I got interrupted and it's now a day later)... I think it had something to do with "it could be worse, the things you really want or like could cost $600"... or something like that... or maybe it was the people who make this stuff have to make a living too, so considering what stuff costs on other sites, it's really not that expensive... What would you charge to make any of the things you purchase, if you could?... Also remember that the Published Artists split their take with DAZ, so if a talented artist isn't making at least enough to keep the lights on and buy ramen, why the hell should they keep making this great stuff? Eventually they'll either take their talents elsewhere or stop doing this altogether.

Nothing gnaws at a person who creates stuff more than when people lament how much they want what you make, but that it's too expensive or not fair that you won't accept less for your work... Eventually they say "F**k this" and either move on to something that pays the bills...

How long do you think it takes an artist to make something? Lets say they put in a week on a model?
Let's say they spend 40-45 hours working on the item... how much is that worth?... Minimum wage?
Slightly more or slightly less?  
Do you pay someone less because they are doing something they are good at and they enjoy?... (Follow that formula and we can kiss most arts, music and professional sports good bye)... 
Think of it this way... if an item costs $20, they probably only get $8 per sale... less if it is discounted or on Super-Ulta-Paladium-Deluxe sale... but at the $20 price they'll have to sell at least 40 in the first week for the item to pay minimum wage. 
The more obscure or unique the item the smaller the numbers it will sell and less income it will generate... long term income from an item does count, but it's the money you make initially that has more of a financial impact because that's what you use to pay bills and long term income will fluctuate. If you are banging out three products a week, and are super fast you are lucky, especially if they sell and you already have an extensive library... but look at most artists product libraries... they only have a few pages of stuff... I've never personally done the math but, it seems like overall four pages is a lot... divide that by how long it took to reach four pages... If someone has been here three years, and they have maybe a little over a page, that gives you an idea of how long it takes for them to put out a product.

Also remember this isn't a static software... software like photoshop for example that hardly changes over years... DS is constantly changing and adding features that artists have to keep up with in order to make the products that work in DS and that people want in DS... by the time you've mastered one feature something changes and you have to figure that out as well... so you can't really rest on your laurels (whatever the hell those are) if you want to remain relevant or competitive or even make a halfway decent product.

I'm just saying... it could be a lot worse pricewise and if you want good products they probably shouldn't be dirt cheap... people are making them and when they feel financially unappreciated they lose interest... nothing say "f**k you" more than "I love your work, you are so talented and smart, your stuff is fantastic, but I really don't think I should be paying you in accordance to the respect and appreciation I have for your work".

Victor_B

I'm totally agree with you McGyver

I'm sure that those who said "the price is too high" never tried to make 3d model by themselves... Esspecially 3d model that works well in Daz Studio...

Nath

I'd be surprised if the $600 car was aimed at the hobbyist market - and the maker probably doesn't (expect to) sell as many copies as for a cheaper, less detailed car aimed at amateurs. There may be hobbyists who fork out for the occasional model at professional pricing levels, but not very many and not very often I'd think - you only do that if you expect to make money from that purchase yourself.

richardandtracy

Victor_B said:

richardandtracy said:

With a number of hobbyists, time making stuff is less of an issue than money. Definitely applies to this hobbiest. I am in the process of modelling a big project & hope it'll be ready by July. But pay for something like it? At the moment I simply couldn't.

Regards,

Richard.

And you will sell it for $5 backs?

No. I'll give it away for free.

And I have a track record for that - I have started putting up poses associated with the models for free already (The stretching & warm-up ones) - https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/freestuff/?uid=7668 . I have uploaded a few other freebie models & scripts too, so far. Think it's 124 freebies so far since last July.

I do try to live by what I say. Don't always suceed in all ways, but I do try.

Regards,

Richard.

 

Victor_B

richardandtracy said:

Victor_B said:

richardandtracy said:

With a number of hobbyists, time making stuff is less of an issue than money. Definitely applies to this hobbiest. I am in the process of modelling a big project & hope it'll be ready by July. But pay for something like it? At the moment I simply couldn't.

Regards,

Richard.

And you will sell it for $5 backs?

No. I'll give it away for free.

And I have a track record for that - I have started putting up poses associated with the models for free already (The stretching & warm-up ones) - https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/freestuff/?uid=7668 

Regards,

Richard.

Ok. Call me in a July. I need something bigger than poses... ;)

Victor_B

Nath said:

I'd be surprised if the $600 car was aimed at the hobbyist market - and the maker probably doesn't (expect to) sell as many copies as for a cheaper, less detailed car aimed at amateurs. There may be hobbyists who fork out for the occasional model at professional pricing levels, but not very many and not very often I'd think - you only do that if you expect to make money from that purchase yourself.

Just another myth obout thousands sells of one product on Daz Store...

richardandtracy

Ok. Call me in a July. I need something bigger than poses... ;)

And what would you like me to call you in July? 

Rather than 'A July' my deadline is 'This July'.

I have the SolidWorks version of the models done and have done so since mid Jan, but getting them through to DS is err.. convoluted. SolidWorks has no compatible format with DS, so I save as STL. I use my own home written software to translate from STL to OBJ, and do the surface grouping, texture mapping and any re-modelling needed in my home written modeller because triangles don't always behave in DS. Texture mapping, scaling, getting round floating point number rounding etc is time consuming. And the number rounding bit was unexpected. I'd entirely forgotten that it ever happened. In 2004 when I first wrote my modeller I went to double precision numbers after having a model where things went wrong due to using single precision numbers and ceased needing to worry about such things again. It appears DS uses single precision numbers. Anyway, I'm learning as a go, and will get quicker.

Regards,

Richard.

 

evacyn

The one thing I wish I could tell my past self when I first started this hobby would be: "Don't buy the old stuff (G2 and earlier) right away". The money I spent on the old bundles, clothing, poses, etc. without truly understanding the work required to get it to a point where I was happy with it kind of burnt me out initially. Flash forward to now where I've spent the time to learn and make mistakes and get better (well, better in the sense that I'm happy with my work) makes me wish I could get the money back when I first started lol.

tsarist

Victor_B said:

I'm totally agree with you McGyver

I'm sure that those who said "the price is too high" never tried to make 3d model by themselves... Esspecially 3d model that works well in Daz Studio...

Umm , No.

I know what it takes to make 3D items as well as photography, & video.

I'm also a customer at the other sites people trot out when they want to argue against prices being too high.

I stand by what I said earlier. The prices ARE rising & is cutting my buying power.

Maybe if the economy picked up or I could get hired in at a better company & I was paid what I was worth, it wouldn't be so bad, BUT I still would admit the prices are rising!

tsarist

Nath said:

I'd be surprised if the $600 car was aimed at the hobbyist market - and the maker probably doesn't (expect to) sell as many copies as for a cheaper, less detailed car aimed at amateurs. There may be hobbyists who fork out for the occasional model at professional pricing levels, but not very many and not very often I'd think - you only do that if you expect to make money from that purchase yourself.

No. Those items are aimed at design firms and individuals with a budget the client is paying for, usually part of upfront.

WendyLuvsCatz

it doesn't matter how nice it is or well made, if I have no use for it, it is expensive.

my library is littered with such stuff I never rendered.

On the other hand I paid much much more for models others later got for $2 but had used them a lot so was worth it

Victor_B

evacyn said:

The one thing I wish I could tell my past self when I first started this hobby would be: "Don't buy the old stuff (G2 and earlier) right away". The money I spent on the old bundles, clothing, poses, etc. without truly understanding the work required to get it to a point where I was happy with it kind of burnt me out initially. Flash forward to now where I've spent the time to learn and make mistakes and get better (well, better in the sense that I'm happy with my work) makes me wish I could get the money back when I first started lol.

Look at this from another point: there will never be G3 and G8 without your purchases of G2 ;)

Victor_B

Ok. Call me in a July. I need something bigger than poses... ;)

And what would you like me to call you in July? 

Rather than 'A July' my deadline is 'This July'.

Sorry, Richard, my English not so good to understand this joke.

Just take your time and call me when you'll be ready

Richard Haseltine

This thread has reached the point at which all arguments have been made and now they are simply being repeated without being heard by those who disagree.