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Thanks Joe. I think you, Holly and I, were working on our responses at about the same time. They really all say essentially the same thing.
Roygee,
How are you doing all of this? Exporting to the same file format in all cases (like .OBJ, etc?)
Thanks
Should I buy a motor scooter, or should I buy a Toyota SUV? Hmm....
It depends on what you want to do and where you want to go. And since you haven't told us that yet, since you probably don't know the answer yourself, we can't give you an answer. A motor scooter is great in certain situations, and is probably the best bet if you just want a cheap solution to take you short distances in good weather and be able to dodge traffic.
Likewise, if you only need basic modeling to drop simple stuff in your scene, then you probably need one solution. If you want to make rigged content in the future, you'll probably want another solution. And on and on the story goes. As I've said 460 million times, it depends on what you want to do.
You're asking unanswerable questions, and focusing on software, looking for a perfect solution (which doesn't exist) to a problem you haven't yet defined. But don't feel bad, that's what 99% of hobbyists do. And you'll get 998 different opinions from people who are doing stuff completely different from what you're doing. You'll really need only a motor scooter, but you'll get a lot of people recommending you buy a Ferrari because it's awesome.
Relax. Stop asking questions and start figuring out what you're doing and what you want to do. Don't worry about software, because if you stick with this you'll be using a lot of different software whether you like it or not. And what you'll really need is skill and talent and knowledge, which you ain't gonna get from software.
Actually, I have stated my goals before, but it might be buried back in some of the posts. So I'll offer it again.
I'm interested in learning how to model objects (not really complex characters at this point) and importing some 3DS MAX rigs that I have come across to do some simple animations. Interested in bringing them into some scenery that Carrara appears to create rather easily. What I'm interested in is adding this content to my cell phone apps that I develop. These are largely entertainment apps, so cool characters with matching backgrounds is the goal. I can easily create sound and music to go with the visuals. My intent was to purchase plenty of DAZ content to bring in for the scenery, and bring in some DAZ or 3DSMAX rigs for main characters. Being able to do so was the incentive for me to start with Carrara, as I really couldn't find any other option that produced the same results with a lighter learning curve. Luckily, Carrara gets close enough to the realism I am also interested in, so I figure it's a good match.
This is why I'm trying to learn about preferred methods/workflows (from the gurus who I'm her groveling to) on how most folks pull off the stuff I don't know how to do. I'm trying to avoid reinventing any wheels that I might not have to (otherwise known as an attempt at efficiency) before I start beating myself to death with this stuff.
There's a lot of idiots who take years to lean things simply because they refused to ask the right questions to the right people. I seek to avoid making those mistakes, and that's why I'm here. I have barely begun investigating this software, and asking these questions and getting helpful answers allows me to decide what direction I deem best to take and avoid the mistake of wasting time I might not have to (made possibly be being a good question asker and good listener). I am a complete noob, and I MUST ask these questions - it's what separates me from being a complete noob and a completely stupid noob.
In my experiences, diving right in and flailing around like an idiot are often one in the same. And the complexity of this kind of software deserves lots of questions to get one's bearings before heading off in any specific direction. Tutorials and questions help me learn faster, and are a supplemental "jump start" to the books I have on order.
Trust me, those tutorials are keeping me from asking even dumber questions than I otherwise would have.
And to the contrary, I have all the Lamborghinis and Ferraris in my garage already - I'm simply interested in learning to drive first.
To carry your analogy about driving a bit further:
At some point, you have to put down the manual, sit in the car and turn the key. It's one thing to understand something at an intellectual level, but at some point you need to put what you think you know into practice. You can read about steering a car, but how does it feel to steer? There's no way to know until you do, and you're bound to over correct or under correct until you get the "feel" for it. Like cars, each piece of software has a different feel to them. I say again, download the trials for the software you're considering and try a few things. They don't have to be camera ready. No one is judging except yourself.
In other words, being a n00b may not be desirable, and a stupid n00b even less so, but like it or not, unless you actually try and put into practice some of the things you've been studying, you'll always be some kind of n00b. ;-)
I would also add, that ignorance is not stupidity. Stupid is forever, ignorance can be corrected.
I have learnt everything I do in this world by diving straight in, then looking at manuals. %-P
prob why my Ikea furniture falls apart and has extra alan key screws over :roll:
while I found parts of the C5pro manual helpful when I fist installed C5pro 3 years ago, I must admit, I really read or watch any tutorials except out of curiosity, not to learn so much.
Certainly have never bought any.
at least not for Carrara
Got the figures, characters and avatars Daz book for the disc content, just pretty pictures otherwise.
bought Blender for dummies but still cannot get the hang of it ;-P
but for me it is just fun, reading tutorials is work.
I just play with software like others do games.
In all the years I've been visiting here, I have never once had anyone agree with me about picking up a book on the basics and reading it. Not once. I don't even recall anyone ever asking about books on fundamentals. I have heard people occasionally/rarely refer to the Jeremy Birn book on lighting, but that's it. And has anyone actually read that book? I mean from one cover to the other?
There are always a very long list of arguments why people should play with the software first. I also don't recall ever having anyone even ask about books on basics. It's always about the software. I don't recall anyone really even discussing basics. It's always about the software. Although occasionally people have to venture into the dreaded discussions of the basic concepts, but it usually seems pretty painful for folks when that happens.
But how often does someone recommend to others that they study the basics, and help them to do that? You guys who have been here for years, what do you think? Be honest, how often do you see that?
Yes, some will say this is a software forum, and of course that's true. But that doesn't mean you can't discuss related stuff, especially when it's so important. Heck, people discuss stuff as unrelated to Carrara, and even 3D software in general, as you can imagine, but basic concepts aren't appropriate I guess.
But clearly I will never win that argument.
OF COURSE you use the software as a tool while you're learning. You learn the concepts, then apply them. Nobody would ever argue with that.
But NOBODY talks about the other part. Ever. And I guarantee, absolutely, that there are a large percentage of people who have been doing this for years here, many years, even some who are considered by others as experts, who have never picked up a book on basics. They have been setting translucency on their materials, and don't know what translucency is. They don't know basic color theory, or basic lighting, or what "UV" means...and on and on. Instead they'll argue about why they don't need to worry about that intellectual stuff, because people who worry about that kind of stuff are "poindexters".
I suppose we could take a poll and see how many people actually looked online for a book on basics as I suggested, or even actually ordered one, or even actually started reading one. But I suspect we already know the answer.
None of this is to be critical, it is, for the most part, all factual. And everyone knows it's factual. And that's fine if people here want to focus on software because that's what they really enjoy. But let's be honest and call it what it is, and not act like everyone has already mastered (or even studied) the basics and just needs some software to make it all happen.
Now, before everyone goes running to the archives to find individual exceptions in an effort to prove me wrong when I say "EVER" or "NEVER", (thereby invalidating everything I say...), let me say I am certain there are some exceptions. But we all know that, in general, what I'm saying is absolutely true. On a scale that ranges from "Hunger for Basics" on one end to "Hostility for Basics" on the other, I think we would all agree that this forum is closer to the "Hostility" end, don't you think? Be honest.......
the only time I get hostile is when you attack someone like Richardchaos for posting too many questions in too many threads
it is a software forum
he is asking questions about the software
while others are still reading books etc on how to do it for fear of asking a dumb question
he just fires away
and
Makes awesome 3D models and animations
which I think is kinda the point %-P
not sounding all cluey and impressive on the forum :roll:
please do not lock thread mods, the OP wants help, if you lock it he will not be able to read how and he have to actually try the software and usk stoooopid questions like I do!!!
Hi bobh.
Carraras modeling workflow is mainly setup with integration to the rest of the program for building scenes and animations. The spline, metaball and Assemble room(which could be considered a modeler) along with various modifiers to objects, can be animated in the timeline. The tree, landscape, formula editors(etc.) are also types of modelers.
In Carrara you can vertex model directly in the scene(Assemble room vertex mode) for spacing and setup, or translate model parts and groups in the Assemble room to form other models. Note; manipulating a model in the Assemble room does not affect the vertex mode and most editors. For instance; a cube transformed into a sphere using the Assemble room features, remains a cube in the vertex mode. So in a way it could be viewed as two models in one instance toward some animations.
Carraras overall modeling is powerful and has many of the same tools as others, but imho, theres no comparing it to a dedicated modeler like Hexagon, Modo etc. These are far better choices and features, if modeling is the main focus.
If you wanted, you could model a V4/5 mesh from start to finish in Carrara, though V4 was created in Modo(iirc). Im guessing it all depends on what modeler the user is most comfortable with. I currently use Carrara and its modeling exclusively for all my projects. In my 3DCG program experience, Carrara is by far the easiest I've used with regard to features.
----
Skimming through past replies in this topic,...Im not sure why Carrara hasn't had a short film like Blenders Big Buck Bunny/Sintel, even though Carrara is easily capable and everything is there to create one(including network rendering with Grid sold here etc.).
Hope this helps.
That would be a 'yes, I have.' First edition, 240 some-odd pages. Most of the techniques/effects covered in the Birn book are things many in the forums here, Rendo, and rdna ask about removing! The 2nd edition is significantly longer, and I've perused the new material.
EDIT: Yes, I know the book is 309 or so pages. The introductory info runs to about page 34 or 35, and the index starts at 280 or so.
As to the basics... People don't want to hear the word "math." Ever. Want to silence a room? Say the word "Algebra" aloud. Even if people did learn the math/theory, many biased renderers ignore basic electromagnetic/photonic theory in the name of "effects" or speed. This is not to say that that is necessarily a bad thing; time is money, and shortcuts are necessary as often as they can be effectively used.
Kendall
Hello everyone,
I too am a noob with Carrara. I'll tell you all up front i'm no artist nor a modeler. I am just an aspiring animator. I want to be able to tell a story that may be interesting for folks to watch. I started out making machinima movies with The Movies game and was very discouraged because of the limitations in it. I got Poser 8 but didn't have a clue how to use it. I wound up with the free copy of Daz 2 and then moved up to Daz 3 advanced. I still have a long ways to go on it still, but I was pumped at what Carrara was capable of doing. I made my first stab at the program last year (https://vimeo.com/22531104). I know it was a little on the bright side with the lighting, but I see it as a ongoing learning process. I was planning to finish up my ongoing series I've been working on for years in Carrara, but got sick and felt better about completing it in Daz. I'm in the planning stage of a new project and since I've spent the whole evening reading what you guys have posted in this forum about Carrara, I want to do it in Carrara but I want to get a better handle on it first. I did the VTC and I have the DVD on Carrara by Phil. I know I'll be running into snags here and there and I hope to be able to ask the right questions so that I can make my movies better. And yes, I've also downloaded the manual for 7 in order to have something I can stare at just so I can get a better understanding. Believe me, I've learned quite a bit in the conversations and it has helped me in my decision to continue to pursue this. Thank you all.
IVAN out
I'm not suggesting people read a physics textbook. I'm suggesting they read a book on the basics of 3D. Very little math, and no discussion of electromagnetic/photonic theory.
Take a look at the table of contents of the book I suggested. Or one like it. It's not scary. And it has many wonderful illustrations. Look, I'll even post the table of contents for you:
1. Animation, Visual Effects, and Technology in Context
2. Creative Development and the Digital Process
3. Modeling Concepts
4. Modeling Techniques
5. Advanced Modeling and Rigging Techniques
6. Rendering Concepts
7. The Camera
8. Lighting
9. Shading and Surface Characteristics
10. Principles of Animation
11. Computer Animation Techniques
12. Advanced Computer Animation Techniques
13. Visual Effects Techniques
14. Retouching, Compositing and Color Grading
15. Image Resolution and Output
Like I said, there is always a long list of reasons/excuses given here why people don't want to learn the basics. But how often do you hear people giving reasons why you SHOULD learn the basics? Never. It's like pulling teeth.
bobh wrote
Greetings bobh. I can only offer how I 'learnt.'
I started about six years - 7 ago with a free program called anim8or.
I was hooked straight away.
I printed out the manual and lugged it around and took notes.
I read it in bed with my morning cuppa.
Lots of people have started with anim8or for modelling and animation.
It's advantage over Carrara is that it has a simple straight forward well chosen tool set.
It lacks certain things. And it also falls down in the keyboard short cut section.
But if you are keen to model reasonably simple objects I would highly recommend Anim8or over Carrara to start off with.
The advantage of having a simple tools set is that you learn those tools well.
You learn workarounds for certain tasks - and you get to use your brains.
And when you finally come to Carrara or hexagon (for modelling) you will have a good basic grounding in modelling - and will enjoy the stronger toolset (eg soft select) that Carrara has.
Anything you make in Anim8or can easily be imported into Carrara in the obj format.
The only downside to Anim8or is the community is fallen into disrepair and a newbie's questions are not answered on their forum with as much knowledg or vigour as they have been in the past.
For animation though? And rigging? Stick with Carrara ;)
You can find anim8or here.
http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php
Roygee statrted with anim8or.
So did this guy (An exampleof anim8or meshes brought into Carrara and animated)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8PxEIdquQU&feature=plcp
This thread has lasted longer than needed. It's beginning to smell unfresh...
ok, that is the anim8or forum but where do you download anim8or? I have looked before and cannot find it :long:
www.anim8or.com
You not have Google in Australia?!
Ok, never said I was intelligent, I believe I may have been mispelling it as animator when looking before (was quite a while ago) :red:
Google would give a lot of unrelated results for THAT!! %-P
That's certainly true, Wendy! I had a quick look at it but it looks a bit limited if you already have and know Carrara (and some of the other tools that you use).
Evil, I failed to mention how much I appreciate your pleasantly detailed post. Really good info and perspective.
Again, another good post. As I had mention before, I have been using the software to following along with tutorials, if nothing more than to get my bearings on where everything is located in the software. The order in which I'm proceeding is learning what everything does first, and then learning how to do it properly after. I'm probably failing at clarifying that. I am in fact using the software, not just asking questions. My questions are cart-before-the-horse in many respects, but they are not being asked without having already loaded Carrara and playing around in it.
And you are entirely correct about noobness and stupidity. ;-)
Well, I've seen some pretty cool things on your web site, so no matter how misguidedly inferior you may feel, I'm pretty impressed. Looking forward to producing a fraction of the things I've seen you crank out. Seriously.
And yes, I'm diving in and playing around to some degree, but I guess I'm just the type that does so a little more methodically. :-)
Well, I'm not one to push for hostilities, as you mention. It gets people nowhere and it's just not worth my time. Life's too short and this ain't no dress rehearsal. Same with those who offer nothing but the same old "RTFM" advice that you find on Linux forums (the operating system for the socially impaired). I get more actual help out reading the back of the box than from those types.
If nobody reads the books you recommend (and have admitted to not reading yourself in one instance), and it has you all bent out of shape about it (that really was quite a diatribe), then I think you might be taking things a little too hard/seriously, especially for a software product support forum for a product that is really used for producing nothing more than amateur hobby art. It's just not worth the blown blood vessels.
I take your advice to be wise, of course, but I'm also taking it with a grain of asbestos.
THANK YOU, for yet another fantastic and helpful post. Good point about the modelers, I've been hearing this often enough to compeltely take it as gospel, which is why I have largely chosen to learn Hexagon. And I cannot tell you how fascinated and actually "happy" I am to see someone brag about using the Carrara modeler exclusively - everyone seems to bash it pretty hard around here. This is a refreshing post because of that, thanks. :-)
Consider yourself on my list for being a go-to for any questions I may come up with about Carrara's modeling room. :-D
BINGO
sorry Wendy th elink is on that home page Phil posted.
.97 is the latest version
http://www.anim8or.com/main/index.html
Back on topic, I have my next annoying question:
Animation of Water/Fire/Fluids.
Is it possible to create semi-realistic fluid effects like water trickling down rocks in some nature scenery? An fire effects for that matter? I know that's bigtime effects that are typically found in high-dollar products, but Carrara bills itself as a capable physics-aware app and really toots its horn along these lines. Can Carrara pull it off fluids to some acceptable degree? Or even at all?
To be clear, I'm totally willing to dump money on add-ons for anything (and even prefer this when possible), but fluids are important to me - or at least soon will be hopefully.
I did come across something called FastFX, which did have some nice looking fire effects. They aren't particle/physics engine aware, and really only a few of them have any degree of realism to their appearance/motion. Though a few are included, no usable water effects to speak of. I really like how the fire was done, though, so that's why I bought it - I'll need that.
Just wondering if anything is actually available in this regard, some secret trick, resource, or add-on you gurus are aware of and would offer to share.
bobh
I;m sorry if you don't realise that it was on topic.
For the water queston - have a search for McGuiver's posts on the old forum and you will find what you need.
Walk before run.
bobh - Carrara does not have a fluid effects engine and I am unaware of a plugin which will do this. You can sort of get some fluid effects using particles, but it is not true fluids. Depending on what you want to achieve, you can fake certain effects with things like animated textures.
Just a comment on a point you made earlier, Carrara is indeed used a lot for hobby art, but is also used for more professional work too. I am only a part time freelancer, but have used it for applications as diverse as a music video, preparation of course materials for university courses, product visualisation and artwork for trading cards. I am sure there a lot of professional and semi-professional 3d artists who use Carrara for paid work, not just hobby art. I'm not sure this kind of work gets the profile it should - it would give users more confidence in Carrara as a bona fide professional 3d app.
Joe, not sure if this is in response to my post, but I never meant to imply that research isn't useful. My point was, that at some point you have to quit analyzing and agonizing over every little bit of minutia and just get busy working with the software. Tutorials that are included with the training materials are a good start as they are designed to help the student get practice, and to illustrate the principals of the area being taught.
My concern was that from what I was reading it gave me the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that the OP was getting bogged down in worrying about the work-flow, the software choice, etc. without really getting in and trying things out.
IMO, it's all a question of quality. The higher the quality you want, the more you need to pay, and the more you need to look outside of Carrara. IMO, Carrara's fire effects are useless, as well as its water/fluids. Unless you want to simulate a nice calm lake or something. But if you're okay with an extremely low quality result, or just want to play with software, then Carrara can do it all, and will give you hours of enjoyment learning how to make something that looks nothing like fire or water.
Instead I'd recommend a far superior, and inexpensive alternative, especially for fire, although it can also be used for fluids. Obtain some video footage of fire and composite it into your animations. Either by making your own video, or downloading a freebie. The big downside to this alternative is that it's NOT a software solution. However, it will give you the opportunity to learn how to use compositing software.
Another alternative that will give you higher quality, and is free, and is also another opportunity to play with more software, is to dlownload Blender and learn how to generate smoke and fire. It's got a very nice smoke simulator, and you can texture the smoke to look like fire.
If you want to go for the big money, high quality effects, get RealFlow for fluids, or something like FumeFX for smoke and fire. Not sure of their latest status in terms of import/export to Carrara, but I'm sure you can work something.
IMO, it's all a question of quality. The higher the quality you want, the more you need to pay, and the more you need to look outside of Carrara. IMO, Carrara's fire effects are useless, as well as its water/fluids. Unless you want to simulate a nice calm lake or something. But if you're okay with an extremely low quality result, or just want to play with software, then Carrara can do it all, and will give you hours of enjoyment learning how to make something that looks nothing like fire or water.
Instead I'd recommend a far superior, and inexpensive alternative, especially for fire, although it can also be used for fluids. Obtain some video footage of fire and composite it into your animations. Either by making your own video, or downloading a freebie. The big downside to this alternative is that it's NOT a software solution. However, it will give you the opportunity to learn how to use compositing software.
Another alternative that will give you higher quality, and is free, and is also another opportunity to play with more software, is to dlownload Blender and learn how to generate smoke and fire. It's got a very nice smoke simulator, and you can texture the smoke to look like fire.
If you want to go for the big money, high quality effects, get RealFlow for fluids, or something like FumeFX for smoke and fire. Not sure of their latest status in terms of import/export to Carrara, but I'm sure you can work something.
I've looked at FumeFX, I believe it's for Maya and 3DSMAX. VERY expensive, $1k I believe. I came across something called FastFX for Carrara, which has some usable fire effects, which will probably suit my needs. Sure wish water was a doable thing, though.
Thaks for the good info, it just confirms what I was already starting to assume. This is fine, of course, but you never know until you ask, especially about higher-end effects and thngs that get into the physics arena.