How to make 3d facail rigs & exspreations ?
RorrKonn
Posts: 509
say I have one character mesh face and body morphed in to 6 diffrent characters.
so there's 6 diffrent looking faces.
I would like to have some 3d facail rigs & exspreations like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4z_RYApUuQ
on the 6 diffrent faces in DAZ Studio.how would you do that ?
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You'd have to add bones and weight map them, I don't think there are any TriAx or Poser figures with rigged faces (they all use morphs/blend shapes).
that is similar to the system used by iClone characters
makehuman can also use facial bone rigs and of course Autodesk project Pinocchio figures
none work in DAZ studio, I use them in carrara and of course iClone,
they are not THAT awesome though, pretty ordinary like earlier DAZ figures, just use bones instead of morphs/blendshapes, Genesis and V4, M4 etc far more expressive.
I would say that is some advanced system using joint controlled morphs made for MAX
you can do similar stuff using puppeteer and various genesis morphs and expressions
You would definitely need to make new bones, but you don't necessarily have to weight them.
There are quite a few face rigs out there that use blendmorphs rather than bone weighting. Basically, the controllers are set up to apply morphs based on how the bones are moved. For example, say you had a "right mouth corner" bone. You could set it up so that if the bone moves upwards it applies a smile morph to the right side of the mouth, and when it moves downwards it applies a frown morph.
Most Daz Studio and Poser figures already do a similar thing in the form of JCMs (joint controlled morphs), morphs that are used to fix any glitches in the joints as they bend, so it's certainly possible to set up something like this. As has been said before though, you'd need to set up the bones yourself (unless it was somehow possible to have it as a plugin, but don't ask me how).
Actually, fun fact, there is already a Poser character out there that does this. Well...was. She was called Haru, and used to be available at Renderosity (not anymore though). There's a video of her facial and body handles in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXJU8fES7dk The body handles most likely use weighting or magnets/deformers, but the facial handles clearly use morphs.
The visual tools in front of Haru that movies ever thing .never seen that in Poser or DAZ How did they do that ?
That's not, I think, Poser or DS - it's fixme campaigning for a feature. In principle the controls could be added just as extra geometry set not to render with bits set as selection groups for the bones that control the morphs, similar to the way body handles work (except they usually do control the mesh directly, rather than through morphs).
It is Poser. Fixme was using an official preview video from the creator of Haru as an example of what he wanted. I've found the original version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAlj8uWMlTY
Turns out the creator also made another video showing those same controls working in Daz Studio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R72Q4u29g3s
There is nothing in either of those videos to suggest they where done in Poser or DAZ Studio.
Yes, unless I see him booting up either Poser or DS and then clicking on those rig controllers, I shall reserve my judgement if those are native to either app. However they do look convincing. Eg the Daz video has yellow highlight boxes and red, blue and green axis controllers which is how Studio operates, so who knows. But I need more proof.
well iClone is the nearest thing I use as I said on genesis
you can sort of customize it like the shown example
it is only really useable in iClone though as the Blendshapes do not export in a use-able animated form using the pipeline FBX export for DAZ studio or are recognized by say carrara
they might work in some other programs like MAX, I have no idea, the info IS in the FBX but nothing I have reads it,
I honestly don't understand. Are you really suggesting that the creator faked those videos? I don't know why such a thing is difficult to believe, as JCMs work in pretty much the exact same way.
But if you want more proof, there's a Japanese poser blog that has written a review of Haru. The review both describes and shows the facial controls, as well as the files used to turn the controls on and off in the first place. I won't link to it as the blog contains nudity, but if you google "Poser Haru" then it's the sixth result on the first page (from zenryokuhp.com).
Haru is also still available to purchase on DLmarket, which you can also find by googling "Poser Haru" on the first page.
No..some of us just aren't sure it's being showed natively in Daz and Poser.
No..some of us just aren't sure it's being showed natively in Daz and Poser.
Well the videos are titled "Use in Poser" and "Use in Daz Studio", so I assume they are. And like I said before there is a Japanese review of the figure that also confirms the controls can be used in Poser.
Watching those videos, I dont see the advantage those controls have over the excisting dials we already have access too in the Parameters Tab.
Watching those videos, I dont see the advantage those controls have over the excisting dials we already have access too in the Parameters Tab.
Admittedly Haru is not the best example of a morph based face rig. I only mentioned Haru as an example to show that such a thing is possible in either Poser or Daz Studio.
A better example (made in Blender) can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jto3RZQ88tY
Skip to 22:55, and you can see how useful such a rig can be. Rather than having to individually adjust the jaw_left, jaw_right, and jaw_down morphs (known in Blender as "shapekeys"), he can simply click and drag the chin controller to dynamically blend between all three of those morphs. It gets even better once he adds the jaw_out morph.
When he finishes setting up the controls, you can see that it takes him a matter of seconds to come up with good facial expression. With a facial rig the whole process becomes a lot more tactile, and less about having to crawl through a long list of morphs to find what you need.
Watching those videos, I dont see the advantage those controls have over the excisting dials we already have access too in the Parameters Tab.
It's all about speed, efficiency and getting the looks you want. Moreso in the animation field where one has a ton of work to do, and scrolling through a huge list of expressions/morphs/shapes would be a massive chore.
Here's a pretty impressive demo, each of the controls are governing a big network of effects on the head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qeOFibRmoo
And here's a screenshot of the Mery rig in Maya, same concept. Everything is nice and neat inside the control boxes
http://www.meryproject.com/
I think of these rigs like Puppeteer in Studio where you can set up to quickly move from one position to another. It is most useful in animation work rather than illustrations.
Its usefulness for animation makes sense. Like everything else its just not for everyone is all.
Haru is still available at Renderosity: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=86604
The "Buy" button says unavailable ... Chocolate007 has removed everything from his/her store ...
I apology for my too brief comment earlier. All I meant is that in the first linked videos there was no sound and nothing in the background to give a clear indication of what was being demoed and in what program. I've Google-d Haru and Poser and did find some useful links. The face controller tool appears to be part of the figure and there where versions of the figure for both Poser and DS. But from what I can see (most all the sites where in Japanese) the rig is just a controller linked to standard morph dials and possibly a jaw bone. The controller is a nice, intuitive and visual way of manipulating expressions but isn't a new way of 'rigging' facial expressions.
Regargless of what can or cannot be done in studio etc
the OP was asking if what was shown in the first video was possible in DAZ
the answer is yes, just by using parameter slider instead of dots on a face image
interface different result the same
somebody could write a plugin that does the same thing maybe, like powerpose for faces
where you assign morphs to controllers on a face graph the same
but I really cannot see the need, just more things to learn to use
puppeteer is just as easy, place the morph pose dots by the position of the affected facial features visually on the graph
only thing is puppeteer could do with an overhaul IMO as it only works properly for a limited number of frames.