FACS Reference?
margrave
Posts: 1,822
So G8.1 makes a big deal of its new Facial Action Coding System rig for better emotions. All well and good, I guess. But when I tried to use it, I found reference material on FACS kind of scarce.
Well, unless you go to the creator's website, where you pay $350 for the manual, study it for 100 hours, pay $50 to take a test, and then they send you the special super-secret emotions manual.
Ha ha ha ha NO.
I have a 9-5 job and multiple other projects to work on in my spare time. I'm not interested in getting certified in FACS. I just want a simple reference guide that tells me, "To get emotion A, use action units X, Y, & Z". I don't mind paying a reasonable price for it, but 100 hours of study plus $50 a test just so I can move arrows on a facial rig better is not a reasonable price.
So, does anybody know any books or other resources that lay out emotions according to FACS plainly and simply?
If not, well... since PowerPose doesn't work on G8.1, I guess this is one more reason to stick with G8.
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Comments
You can still use G8 expressions with G8.1, no need to start fiddling with the FACS rig.
I don't use expressions or poses. I do it all by hand.
Personally, Power Pose is how I do all my expressions and I find the FACS rig extremely frustrating with 8.1. I get what people love about it, but I find Power Pose to be the most useful tool in Daz for posing.
While I heartily agree with everything you said, Daz stated this is supposed to result in more realistic facial expressions. I'd like to test that, but without having to fork over upwards of $400 dollars.
You can use FACS for free. The whole scientific basis thing is mosty irrelevant to artists, and for those interested, there are free resources that have nothing to do with FACS.
You mean that you manipulate the individual bones in upper and lower face rig one by one to build an expression?
Usually I find the basic PowerPose face template is good enough. Although on occasion, yes, I do use the detailed PowerPose template and fiddle with the individual bones.
The reason Iray looks so good is because it scientifically models the way light interacts with surfaces. So having a scientific basis when trying to do photorealism is very important. Now Daz has advertised this particular feature as enhancing photorealism, and while it is free to use it, the documentation is locked behind an expensive paywall.
dont u literally just drag the buttons around
Yes. It's simple and easy. That's why I don't buy expressions.
then why do u need a manual
Because Daz replaced PowerPose for 8.1 with FACS, which is supposed to be scientifically-accurate. But you need the manual to know how to use it accurately.
dont u literally just drag the buttons around
we've been here before.
With FACS, you consult the reference guide, and it tells you exactly which buttons to drag to achieve a photorealistic emotional response. It takes the guesswork out of facial expressions.
isnt there 50 years of documentation around FACS that you could consult, as others have said, on google?
If something is an industry standard, why would you have to go to Daz for info.
I would also like to find a guide showing what basic adjustments are used to create common expressions, but I think using photographs as reference is actually a pretty good way to learn how FACS works. There really aren't that many dials to use (I often find myself looking for more, like one to bring the eyebrows together), and it will help in the long run to understand what all of the dials do and how they affect others as well.
Also, this page might help a little:
https://imotions.com/blog/facial-action-coding-system/#main-action-units
Psychology. Automated facial recognition. Animation. Basically anything that requires computerized study of human emotions.
Literally the first paragraph of my first post explained that I did research it, and found the most pertinent info paywalled behind the creator's website.
Since the Daz team proudly touted that they added this feature to their most recent release, I assumed other people who use their product might've done some research on it and could provide me with insight so I don't have to drop $400 on a certification.
I did find that website, yeah. But like the Wikipedia page, the info seems kind of bare-bones. Like they don't want to get sued for revealing trade secrets or something. I'm expecting there's some kind of huge reference guide with hundreds of photographs and lists of action units detailing minute variations for different stimuli or something.
Personally, I'm not that keen on the idea of figuring out how FACS works on my own. Rather defeats the purpose of having a rigid standard, I think. I'd much rather have a list of instructions to follow if I need to. Of course, I'm sure that's how the Ekman Group makes their money.
Not for nothing, but the page that SnowSultan linked has a download link for a free beginner/intermediate FACS guide right on it.
Have you downloaded that and seen if that fits your needs?
Heh, I've become so numb to advertising that I assumed that was an ad and scrolled right past it.
But I'm leery about the fact that you have to give your email address, organization, and consent to four pages of "How we can use your data".
I did a little digging and found a copy of the first few pages uploaded by a third-party: https://www.coursehero.com/file/30117655/iMotions-Guide-Facial-Expressions-2016pdf/ According to the table of contents, it looks like a guide to the hardware/testing setup for whatever software this company is selling.
It sounds like you want high-quality tutorials and explanations for free... and that isn't common with Daz and I don't think it should be expected. Daz has always been bad about documentation, so for you to expect them to suddenly change their whole MO just doesn't make sense. Like many of Daz features, you can learn it the hard way or through tutorials and info that people are giving away out of the kindness of their heart (which shouldn't be expected to live up to a professional standard) for free. Or you can pay for the info that meets your standards. Absolutely nothing has changed. Don't know why you would expect it to.
Also, it's not that hard dude. Just start with a base expression and tweak it for realism. Or use a photo for reference. If you decide to make it more complicated, that's on you. ...Seriously, just move the pieces of the FACS on the part of the face you want to adjust. That's all you do.
Edit: I'd like to add that even small tweaks to an expression can hugely increase the quality of an expression. So taking the small amount of time it takes to do these tweaks is worth it to me.
google facial expression X (let's say "fear") -> go to images -> find one you like -> move the arrows around on the control rig to achieve a similar result
FACS is quintessential in facial animation however it's not exactly a complete system. It was created in the 70's and wasn't really updated since. It does not account for several facial movements (like phonimes for example). It also doesn't account for the full range of human emotions like malice or duping delight to name a few.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what FACS is. It is a widely used methodology to describing and coding facial expressions and not some industry standard rig that has a look up guide to reference. Unless you are coding a system yourself, you don't buy the manual. There are no descriptions of button presses in the manual. DAZ has already taken some movements based on the FACS and implemented them through a new rig interface to let you -- the end user -- play around with as you would with Powerpose.
FACS is not owned by Daz. They're not in charge of documenting it. I ended my very first post asking other Daz users to recommend a book I could purchase at a reasonable price, so I'm not sure where you got the idea I won't accept anything that isn't free.
Also, FACS is designed to scientifically analyze and categorize facial expressions, so your recommendation to "just eyeball it" is contrary to the purpose of FACS.
According to the Wikipedia article, that is exactly what FACS is:
What I am looking for is the resource that explains all the rest of those action units, so that I can translate them into the Daz FACS facial rig. I was just riffing off the previous commentor's post when I said "what buttons to press".
This is supposed to be very good and the price is reasonable for a proper reference work.
https://anatomy4sculptors.com/collections/books/products/anatomy-of-facial-expressions-pdf ;
You'd probably be best off with the pdf version as the layout seems a bit duff and some cross referencing needed as you'd want the page for the expression open along with the pages for the corresponding FACS.
the stuff you wwere looking at with the paywall is unlikely to be any use to you anyway
it's papers and research on facial movements and how the system was arrived at
you need better Google search terms
try facial expression charts etc and Google images
and as said, there is no manual
for DAZ
Probably from all your complaining about Daz and the "paywall" :P Sorry I'm not living up to the "spirit" of FACS by using common sense and photos.
They didn't... Out of curiosity, just tried PowerPose with G8.1 and it did everything the same it does with G8