I have to give up on DAZ
trashkollector
Posts: 22
DAZ continues to freeze my Windows 10 sporadically.
I invested a decent amount of money on assets but it looks like I cant use DAZ.
Random freezes ocuring with DAZ, but other software does not causing freezing.
I can't find anything useful in the DAZ logs to see what error is happening.
Its a shame that DAZ org is not taking stability seriously.
I think you need to worry LESS about new features and MORE on stability.
Ran all the standard checks on memory, disk and no issues with memory or harddisk.
Here is anexample when MY PC FROZE UP during a render. As you can see there is NO ERROR message to indicate what is happening.
021-04-15 09:35:19.581 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.24 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER): Scene processed in 0.155s
2021-04-15 09:35:19.584 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.24 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER): Allocated 44.861 MiB for frame buffer
2021-04-15 09:35:19.584 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.24 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER): Allocated 1.750 GiB of work space (2048k active samples in 0.000s)
2021-04-15 09:35:19.584 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.24 IRAY rend info : CUDA device 0 (GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER): Used for display, optimizing for interactive usage (performance could be sacrificed)
2021-04-15 09:35:19.761 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.24 IRAY rend info : Allocating 1-layer frame buffer
2021-04-15 09:35:19.776 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00001 iterations after 0.350s.
2021-04-15 09:35:19.949 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00002 iterations after 0.523s.
2021-04-15 09:35:20.117 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00003 iterations after 0.691s.
2021-04-15 09:35:20.288 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00004 iterations after 0.862s.
2021-04-15 09:35:20.456 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00005 iterations after 1.030s.
2021-04-15 09:35:20.626 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00006 iterations after 1.200s.
2021-04-15 09:35:20.792 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00007 iterations after 1.366s.
2021-04-15 09:35:20.962 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00008 iterations after 1.536s.
2021-04-15 09:35:21.133 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00009 iterations after 1.707s.
2021-04-15 09:35:21.308 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00010 iterations after 1.881s.
2021-04-15 09:35:21.478 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00011 iterations after 2.052s.
2021-04-15 09:35:21.649 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00012 iterations after 2.222s.
2021-04-15 09:35:21.912 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00014 iterations after 2.486s.
2021-04-15 09:35:22.183 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00016 iterations after 2.757s.
2021-04-15 09:35:22.538 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00019 iterations after 3.112s.
2021-04-15 09:35:22.901 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00022 iterations after 3.475s.
2021-04-15 09:35:23.351 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00026 iterations after 3.925s.
2021-04-15 09:35:23.902 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: 21.38% of image converged
2021-04-15 09:35:23.918 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00031 iterations after 4.492s.
2021-04-15 09:35:24.501 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00037 iterations after 5.075s.
2021-04-15 09:35:25.042 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00042 iterations after 5.616s.
2021-04-15 09:35:25.662 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00048 iterations after 6.236s.
2021-04-15 09:35:26.360 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00055 iterations after 6.934s.
2021-04-15 09:35:27.157 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: 64.72% of image converged
2021-04-15 09:35:27.157 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00063 iterations after 7.731s.
2021-04-15 09:35:28.075 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00073 iterations after 8.650s.
2021-04-15 09:35:28.602 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00078 iterations after 9.176s.
2021-04-15 09:35:29.201 Iray [INFO] - IRAY:RENDER :: 1.0 IRAY rend progr: Received update to 00083 iterations after 9.775s.
FREEZE OCCURRED after this last line, but WHY?
This was on a newly installed DAZ 4.15.
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Comments
Perhaps an Iray driver or hardware issue?
https://www.raymond.cc/blog/having-problems-with-video-card-stress-test-its-memory/
https://programming4beginners.com/gpumemtest
What do you mean you PC "froze"? Did you check Windows Task Manager to see what the DAZ Studio process was doing, how much CPU, RAM, and GPU VRAM it was using, and what the CUDA engine was doing?
It appears the scene you were rendering was pretty empty, since it converged to near 70% after only less than 10 seconds. And it only used 80 iterations? So I'm guessing you weren't using much GPU VRAM.
Without info on what was actually going on (from Task Manager) we can speculate all day about all kinds of possibilities, so I think it's best to do some more investigation unless you've really decided to give up.
Also, you might check your Windows Reliability History to see if anything else was going on. Go to Security and Maintenance/Maintenance/View Reliability History and it will tell you all the important Windows events in the last week or two.
You asked for it , here it is
Unfortunatley, the state of the resources was pretty normal
The render itself was pretty basic.
I took that photo just after it froze since I couldnt perform a PRTSCR
Thanks for the helpful links. I ran the GpuMemTest and it was succesful after running the 8 tests.
I thought it was my GPU when this firs started, so I did install a new fresh Windows 10, and did a bunch of benchmarks and stress test and everything is fine.
It's pretty much triggered by DAZ. That is is the only common thread.
Also, once this happens it really corrupts Windows, where it may or may not boot up correclty depending on the level of corruption.
Also, I have been playing around with a trial version of iClone, and havent had any issues yet. However its only been a few days.
The common thing that is not thought about is how much power draw is required when rendering due to it maxing out hardware. How old is the PSU, and what kind of hardware is it powering? I say run something like Prime 95 along with furmark at the same time and let them max out your hardware as it's just as intense if not more so than DAZ. If it freezes you have a hardware issue and my bet would be on the PSU if the other hardware checks out.
I know you said previously you said you did stress tests I'm just spit balling here. The reason I believe you do indeed have a hardware issue is due to the windows corrpution thing, reason I'm leaning on your PSU so hard. As they get older as you may know, every year they lose roughly 5% - 10% of their efficiency, I usually replace mine every 3 - 5 years.
In more than one case, the stress tests have been unable to test the system and especially the PSU the way DS does while rendering.
Definitely think about giving Furmark and Prime 95 a run at the same time then. It'll push your system to it's max. That is, if you still want to figure this out so you can keep using Daz, if not, then it is up to you of course. I'm just thinking that the other software and games may not be giving you trouble now, but who knows at this point, if it is indeed the PSU then only a matter of time and those will freeze too.
This doesn't sound as a Daz problem at first, since tons of people render without issues, plus it all sounds like a hardware problem. It skews towards that. Heat is a common problem, so check that as well, what are the temps? Have the vents been cleaned recently?
I would say it's either heat or power, or both. CPUID HWMonitor will allow you to see (run as Administrator). You'll be able to see CPU/GPU temps, etc. By the way, I have experienced freezing with iRay, specifically when I have post denoiser enabled AND I'm doing a 4K render of a scene with a bit of complexity (nothing wrong with my temps, also have a 2070 but not the Super).
Apparently this happened less than 10 seconds after starting the render. And since the render was almost complete, I doubt the GPU was stressed. And keep in mind that GPU's don't automatically explode at a certain temperature. They are designed to regulate themselves when they sense their temperature is getting high. They crank up their fans, cut back their clock speed, etc., to lower their temperature.
Again, I suggest the OP check those things I listed, not just a Task Manger view of system memory. IF the entire computer "froze", it sounds like there may be something else going on, perhaps on a Windows level, or maybe if the GPU is driving the display the GPU crashed. But that would only be evident if the OP checks those things I suggested.
By the way, regarding the power supply. Assuming it's an ATX power supply, they are required to have monitoring circuitry that checks to see if any of the voltages it's supplying to the motherboard and other components are okay, and that it's not being overloaded. If there is a problem, the power supply logic will shut down the power supply and the entire computer. Not freeze the display, shut the whole thing down.
Regarding a power supply overload, the OP has an RTX 2070 Super (same as I have), and it's rated at 215 watts. Which means during an Iray render it will probably draw around 200 watts or less. Unless the OP has a 250 or 300 watt power supply, I don't think power supply overloading is an issue.
My PC was under warranty and had it sent back via RMA (about 2 months ago) and Zotac could not find anything wrong the hardware.
They ran it thru thru all the stress tests for a few weeks.
Btw, did you miss my attachment. I showed you the state of everything. GPU was utlized at 30% but may not be shown in that photo.
I honestly think there are some serious bugs in the DAZ code when they are accessing the graphics API and may only surface occassionaly and with certain hardware. I also understand they are using an extremely old programming language according to a blog I read.
It's always easy to simply blame hardware, but if that were the case then other apps should also cause these lockups.
I saw the attachment, and it didn't include what I suggested. Did you check the Reliability History? That should tell you if Windows has had any issues in past days/weeks, such as hardware failures, software failures, driver updates, Windows updates, etc. And since your GPU is driving the display, it should show if suddenly the GPU failed. And it would be helpful if you explain exactly what you mean by your PC "froze".
Also, in Task Manager it's important to monitor the specific DAZ Studio process, not just the overall computer usage. Attached is an example. I'd monitor that as the render progresses.
Thanks for the info on Reliablity History. I installed a fresh copy of Windows 10 so that history is wiped out, but will keep an eye on it.
Something interesting, it seems that DAZ uses QT FRamework (which is built on top of C++).
On blog mentioned they are using QT 4, which is already end of life. Does anyone know if they ported their code to QT5.
I check the QT website, and amazingly the website seems to be up-to-date , so I think they are still in business selling QT5.
So that's good news. But if DAZ is using ver 4 as the blog indicates. It could be lacking critical updates.
Aren't there any DAZ folks that chime in on this message board. Cmon guys this is YOUR PRODUCT ,support it!
What blog, and what grounds do you have for taking it seriously? As for Qt, Daz has been working on moving to a newer version for some time and the process has now been accelerated by the need to have a version of DS that will run on MacOS Big Sur, but that is going to break existing plug-ins (and some will not be reworked due to the departure or death of the developers.) In any event, if the issue is in rendering then the code is written by the Iray developers, not Daz.
Keep in mind that there are many users that haven't experienced what you're experiencing. Like I said, I've been using the same GPU for a while, and aside from a fairly rare D|S crash (hasn't been annoying enough to figure out why), it works fine. So yeah, every piece of software on the planet has SOME unresolved bugs, but to immediately assume that it's a D|S problem in this case might be a bit premature. But unfortunately it's going to take some effort on your part to gather data if you really want to figure this out.
I know there are many users like me who are experiencing random feezes because people have posted it.
I actually like this product a lot and trying to make it better , more robust.
If I didnt like DAZ I wouldnt bother to spend all this time posting this info.
But lets have an honest assessment here. There are many parts of DAZ that are not polished or possibly not enough QA controls
Have you tried working with dForce simulation - you mean you there is nothing they can do stop the EXPLOSIONS..are you kidding me? Nobody is bothering to address this... how sloppy is that? In addtion to Windows freezing there are many other random crashes that I encounter that I didnt even bother to talk about. By no means is DAZ a polished product.
I am a developer myself.
I don't believe the exception handling that is happening in DAZ is adequate, in fact its sub par IMHO, Sure the nvidia drivers could be buggy as well so its going to be hard to pin down the root cause of these issues.
But all I know is that other softwere I used that ALSO uses nVidia drivers does NOT crash and they are taxing my system resources pretty heavily as well.
I think DAZ would benefit by making it as FAIL proof, as much as possible.
Sorry, but excpetion handling is not fun development work, but it needs to be solid for a good user experience.
I would have no problem if I got a big Error Dialog instead of Frozen OS. I could live with that.
Explosions in dForce may be down to settings (not enought iterations to diffuse energy), pose, or the item itself.
I wasn't taling about drivers - I was talking about Iray, which is a closed .dll/.dylib over which Daz has no control.
Of course it's possible that there are issues in DS - likely even - but sweeping statements that just blame the developers are no more useful than simply blaming the hardware (although, if an issue persistently affects some users and not others, hardware or drivers are indeed the likely issue).
Yeah, you may be right. But when it comes to stuff like dForce, I think it's safe to say that 90% of the performance of any cloth simulator depends on the mesh, not necessarily the simulator. I'm sure there are users who bring in a mesh not designed for cloth sim and expect them to work. And even if it is designed for cloth sim, I can't imagine trying to define every possible cloth and collision setting (softness, stretch, etc.) and verify that nothing ever explodes.
And yeah, apparently the most difficult software development task on the planet is developing NVIDIA drivers that just work
But anyway, in a case like yours I tend to step back a bit and not just point at the standard stuff that everyone likes to assume is the problem. Clearly there's something weird going on, and it could be a whole list of things.
I had a situation where my PC would reboot if I used IRay preview. No indication of an error in the logs. Eventually I ran a hardware stress test called OCCT (free download) and it crashed on the PSU test. I'm not suggesting you take the extreme measures that I did because I took that as a signal to upgrade my hardware almost completely but I do believe that the problem was the PSU.
If your system is locking up after only 10 seconds of rendering I doubt it's a heat issue. That's just too fast for siginificant heat to build up.
One thing i woud try is to switch iray in daz over to CPU only and see if you can sucessfully render. I'll take longer but if it renders all the way that may tell you something. I'd also try updating or setting back the nVidia driver to see if that makes a difference. And, if your GPU is overclocked, set it back down to spec.
Also, I would run chkdsk on whatever drive was set in daz studio as your temp drive. I think that's where in progress renders are saved and you may have a bad block somewhere.
Hope this helps...
Out of curiousity, I rendered a scene that took 1 minute using the same RTX 2070 Super as the OP. Attached is a graph of the GPU temperature for the duration of the 1 minute render. As you can see it starts in the mid 40C range, and after 10 seconds it's risen only into the low 50's. Even after the full minute it's still rising, and in the high 50's. So yeah, as has been mentioned the GPU really wasn't stressed after less than 10 seconds. Though as I say I don't think it even matters, since GPU's are real good at monitoring themselves and making sure they don't overheat.
Regarding the disk activity during the render, I also watched for any disk activity before and after the render, and saw none. I assumed it just holds the render updates in memory, and doesn't save anything to disk unless you tell it to save it. Maybe not. Maybe transferring an HD image to my SSD is just a un-noticeable blip since it's such a relatively small amount of data.
Have you looked at configuring DAZ Studio to use only half of the CPU threads in the Render setting - advanced section, check boxes near the bottom of the page?