Exporting Substance Painter Maps / Importing Those Maps into Daz

docbadwrench

I'm having a remarkably hard time finding any reference, notes, or forum posts that specifically addresses this, so maybe it's an unmet thing and maybe - just maybe - a long-winded, data-rich post can help us all get on the same page.

I'm having a lot of fun learning to paint models in Substance Painter. And I have successfully exported PBR textures from that program into Blender. But now I'm to the point where I want to export these maps and import them into Daz for rendering in that environment, but I have two problems:

1. I can't identify the precise export template - including all relevant maps - that I should be using when attempting to export from Substance Painter.

2. I can't identify the precise shader values where I plug those into when I’m working in Daz Studio.

1 | Substance Painter Export Template

Here is a thread that I used to guide me as to select the following output template: Document channels + Normal + AO (with alpha)

For my exports intended for Blender, I have used the following Preset: PBR Metallic Roughness with the following alteration: For the normal texture, I use Normal OpenGL instead of Normal DirectX.

This leaves me with the following (primary) PBR textures: BaseColor, Height, Metallic, Normal and Roughness.

As I am not incredibly conversant in the use of IRAY, I am not certain what my different maps should be (and how I should modify them). However, in part two, I’m going to put my knowledge of PBR-assignment next to what I’ve attempted in DAZ and see where that lands me.

2 | Plugging Those Exported Maps into Models in DS

Here’s a chart that puts those maps into context: Blender PBR & DS IRAY (Metal / Plastic). I’m confident this will be wrong. But I’m also confident that one of you kind people can help me figure out how to fix it:

 

 

Substance Painter	Blender	Daz Studio
Texture Map	Principled BSDF	IRAY: Metallicity/Rougness
BaseColor (RGB)	Base Color	Diffuse Color
Height (Gray)	Unused	Base Bump
Metallic (Gray)	Metallic	Metallicity
Normal (RGB)	Normal	Normal Map
Roughness (Gray)	Roughness	Glossy Roughness (Not Diffuse)
Opt / Emissive (RGB)	Emission	Emission Color
Opt / Opacity (Grey)	Alpha	Cutout Opacity

There are two maps that I can’t find a home for: the Metallic and the Emissive (where relevant).

And all this assumes that there is a 1-to-1 relationship between Blender’s PBR maps and Daz IRAY’s maps, which there probably isn’t. I mean, perfectly. So that’s what I want to figure out.

Thanks for your attention.

SickleYield

Hi! I use SP regularly for products. It sounds like you might need to add the Iray Uber Shader from Shader Presets, because if you are getting glossiness and no metallic or emission you are looking at a 3Delight shader. I apologize for the following if you're actually rendering in 3DL on purpose! If you're using the most common DS Iray shader type, Metallicity/Roughness, there is a metallicity slider at the very top. This also has a drop-down with the "Browse" command that lets you add the metallicity map here. Then you would add the roughness map to the Roughness channel and there is no need to invert it. You can expose the Emission options by setting the emissive color to something other than black (white or gray usually, but others depending on your project). Then you can put the emissive map from SP in the Emission color channel. I also recommend exporting from SP with the Padding settings at Dilation+Transparent or Dilation+Default Background because it ends up looking much tidier. With or without alpha and with or without transparent only matters if you are exporting separate layers for compositing. With the exception of pngs for LIE use, most textures must be flattened to no alpha anyway and any transparency is interpreted using the cutout opacity map. And I almost forgot, if you have a height map with info differing from the opengl normal map, that goes in Bump.

docbadwrench

See, I knew product designers had to be using SP for some of this stuff. Thanks for your response!

You are quite right in that I am aiming at IRAY here. I already have the standard PBR/3DL workflow figured out. Now I want to figure out IRAY for renders straight from Daz.

I am trying to follow your instructions, but I am not seeing the same things that you are. First, let me say that I have confirmed that I'm working in IRAY. I checked the renderer to make sure. But here are the differences:

1. You mentioned "Metallacity/Roughness" and stated that there is a slider at the very top. I don't see this. Instead, I see a field called Lighting Model. Within that field are a number of options: Plastic, Metallic, Skin, Glossy (Plastic), Matte and Glossy (Metallic). I have currently selected Glossy (Metallic).
2. You also mentioned that it has a drop-down with the Browse option. I also don't see that. The Diffuse channel, right below it, allows me to upload a map, as do the other relevant channels, but there is no Metallacity field. Here is a sample surface from the model I am working on, which should help illustrate the problem.
3. You also said "Add the roughness map to the roughness channel", but there is no roughness channel. There's a Glossiness channel. And my understanding is that you are supposed to invert because one is the opposite of the other.
4. You also said "Put the emissive map...in the Emission color channel". Note that earlier link: there is no emission color channel.

At this point, it is worth asking if there is some underlying setting that I should be looking at. So much differs from what you recommended that I do that I'm way more confused now than I was earlier.

Also: There is no IRAY export template anywhere in Substance Painter. Is this something I can obtain elsewhere? I'm happy to build it myself, but I need to at least see an example of what I'm aiming at.

I'm starting to read more about how I would build a template, but I am really stuck on where the heck the Metal input is...

SickleYield

You are not working with the Iray Uber Shader.  Even if you're trying to render in the Iray engine, you still have to select the item, select all of its materials, and double-click the Iray Uber Shader preset from Shader Presets.

docbadwrench

Thanks so much Sickle! I got some additional data from this thread, but here is the action to take (for other noobs like me):

1. In the Scene tab, Select your model
2. In the Surfaces tab, Shift-Select all (relevant) surfaces
3. Also in Surfaces tab, under the Presets sub-tab, double click !Iray Uber Base

This will apply the shader to all materials and allow me to continue following those instructions. Using this, I will attempt to update the original post's table. It' just going to take a few..

Thanks again!

docbadwrench

Okay, I've had a chance to review everything. After I applied to the shader, all your recommendations worked flawlessly.

So far, I think that the standard Blender Maps will actually work just fine until I start getting crazy with Diffuse Overlay Weight, Translucency Weight, and all the other Weights I'm not familiar with. The main thing, though, is I have a workflow! I'm sure additional tweaking will occur over time, but for now, I can Do Things.

I updated the table above. Please let me know if you see anything erroneous and I'll update it.

Thank you so much for your patience, SickleYield!

SickleYield

No problem, glad it worked out! :)

barbult

I'm curious why the PNG maps need to be flattened (no transparency). I've been using PNG maps with transparency from Marvelous Designer in DS with no apparent problem in Base Color and Glossy Roughness. What problem am I overlooking?

SickleYield

They load slower because the file sizes are larger owing to lower compression? Am I wrong about how that works?

docbadwrench

Additional question: When I'm plugging my map into the Rougness, is that Diffuse or Glossy?

SickleYield

docbadwrench said:

Additional question: When I'm plugging my map into the Rougness, is that Diffuse or Glossy?

Glossy. Diffuse roughness is not something I understand hugely well but I've never had it respond well to conventional rough maps.

barbult

SickleYield said:

They load slower because the file sizes are larger owing to lower compression? Am I wrong about how that works?

I don't see any significant size difference between the version with the transparency (created by the baked textures in MD) and the flattened version (created by the export unified textures in MD). I don't think the PNG file with transparency translates to any DS transparency, but the non-transparent section of the file looks correct on the garment (with the proper UV, of course). If I tile the texture, just to see what happens, the transparent portion renders black in DS. Of course the non-transparent texture would render with whatever background color it has, where the transparent one rendered black.

There may be some issue with PNG files with transparency in DS, but I don't know what it is. That is why I asked. Maybe it is a problem in some channel other than where I am using it.I know you cant use it in Cutout Opacity and expect the transparent part to cut out.

I'm using DS 4.15.0.14 Public Beta.

SickleYield

Huh. Maybe I was just confused on that, then. I could swear there was a reason why we were all using jpgs but if it's not filesize I'm not sure what it would be

barbult

I was comparing file size of two PNG files -one flattened and one with transparency. I'm sure JPG files could be compressed more, to smaller files, if you are concerned as a PA, about product download size. I don't think that file size (megabytes) has any bearing on VRAM usage during render though. File pixel dimensions affects VRAM usage. I am just making MD clothing for my own use. I'm taking the simplest path, without concerns that PAs may have.