General question about commissioning prices for 3D artists
ChallyII
Posts: 49
So I've been annoyed for a while at the general inability of DAZ content artists to produce defent flat-soled footwear for female characters of an adventuring bent, and finally decided to see about paying a 3D artist to create some on another site (CG Trader to be precise).
All I want is some rigged boots for G8F that don't have chuffing stripper heels.
When I posted the ad, one of the things the site wanted me to specify was a prospective budget, so I put in $200, thinking of that as my upper limit and knowing that 3D modelling work often seems to command ridiculous prices- also expecting that I'd be able to get three or four different items at the upper end of that price bracket.
Since posting the ad, I've had an awful lot of applications for the commission, but what I'm noticing is that everyone is quoting $200 for a single item, regardless of whether they actually have any examples of relevant prior work to show. I guess I'd naively assumed people would quote what the job was worth, but should probably have expected people to demand the upper end of what I'd suggested I was willing to pay. Clearly, I'm not going to drop $200 on a single set of rigged boots, even if they're really, really well done.
I know I should have done my research before posting the ad, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of doing something similar, and knows what sort of prices are common in the 3D commissioning world. Is $200 for a single set of rigged footwear for a G8 character actually realistic? Exactly how much work does it entail? I've had a go at doing it myself in blender and come a cropper, but I imagine someone with the know-how could do it in an hour or so.
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the price is actually reasonable, if not on the low end for 3d commision work. Users that only use DS and don't venture outside the DAZ ecosystem don't realize how cheap the assets at DAZ area compared to the actual 3d market. The reason the prices here are so cheap is the goal is to sell multiple copies to get a good return on investment. Normal 3d market creators don't have those kinds of volume numbers plus they are also selling the licensing to use the item in other ways and apps. Think of it like this, a creator makes a set of fancy boots and has to make $5000 to cover the time and resources used to create it. they can sell it here for $20 expecting 250 or more users to purchase it or sell it for $500 at a normal 3d site expecting 10 users to purchase it.
As for what the job was worth, they probably feel their time and effort is worth that if not more.
If you did get a lot of interest, make sure you get some references as there are a lot of modelers out there that are not that good, so make a good choice to get the best queslity for your money
Something like this?
https://www.daz3d.com/amazing-morphing-boots-for-genesis-8-females ;
I've never produced anything like that, so take this with a grain of salt...
I have tried to model fairly simple shoes in Blender, and it's not easy. You first need to find some reference images that match what you're looking for. Then you have to model it, and depending on the shape maybe sculpt it, which maybe requires moving to something like ZBrush. Which costs money. then you have to rig it. And I suppose you also have to UV map it and come up with textures. And maybe you'd have to pay for the texture images somewhere. Since you're talking boots I'm assuming they would have complex leathery wrinkles and buckles and stuff.
Even if someone really good could pull all that off in 8 hours, consider that minimum wage (at least here in US) is around $15 per hour, not including costs for associated software they'd need and textures and stuff.
And 8 x $15 = $120. And assuming you're also paying for talent and skill, $15 per hour may seem kinda low.
Did a search with "Boots" and narrowed the results to G8F and G81F - Gave me 400 results, of which I found around 10 flat heeled ones that a Lara Croft style adventuring female could be using.
Work takes time. Time costs money. How much money do you expect an artist to make? Minimum wage? Less than minimum wage? It's why I stopped doing artwork commissions...I was working for nothing because nobody wants to pay an artist a living wage or even enough to make it worth the time investment.
There doesn't seem to be much to those boots. No stitching or buckles or laces. I would expect OP is looking for something more detailed...which brings us around to the hourly wage per time investment thing. More details means more time.
For medieval/fantasy adventure: https://www.daz3d.com/s3d-fc-boots-for-genesis-3-and-8-females
For contemporary adventure: https://www.daz3d.com/s3d-real-boots-for-genesis-8 and by the same vendor but at Rendo: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/slide3d-military-boots-for-g8f-and-g3f/125900/
For cyberpunk/post-apocalyptic adventure: https://www.daz3d.com/liquidator-boots-for-genesis-8
I imagined fantasy only, I guess.
For contemporary or maybe a bit general modern style, these may be interesting, depending on the height of the shoots/boots required:
https://www.daz3d.com/adventure-outfit-for-genesis-8-females
https://www.daz3d.com/adventure-hunter-outfit-for-genesis-8-and-81-females
https://www.daz3d.com/bandit-sarah-outfit-for-genesis-8-females ;
What I would do is post some reference images of what it is you're looking for. A lot of Daz "forumites" have seen a lot of assets you may not be familiar with and can point you toward the good stuff.
But yeah, if you want someone to make something just for you, count on paying minimum wage. Content creators factor in the probability of you not being happy with their first iteration, and having to do additional work in order to get paid.
I do fantasy pretty much exclusively...they aren't detailed enough for me. But I'm annoying like that, haha.
Those are around $17. The artist gets 50% by default. Assume sales are at 30% off. That makes roughly $6 per sale. Various PAs have said over the years that about 100 unitss ell for a successful product. If you want them to make a pair of boots for you, exclusively or something they don't think will sell well in the store (or even be accepted by Daz) then you'd need to match the $600 they might have made from a more popular model.
All of these are Lara Croft style and free:
https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/77959/retro-heroine-8-outfit
https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/76483/retro-heroine-outfit-for-g3f-part-13 (has three parts)
https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/76496/expansion-nr1-for-retro-heroine-outfit-for-g3f
https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/76906/retro-heroine-outfit-expansion-nr-4-part-1-of-2 (has two parts)
"but I imagine someone with the know-how could do it in an hour or so."
Uhhh..... a pair of even simple single boots would take far longer than an hour lol Just consider all the morphs one would have to put in.... not to mention, modeling, rigging, mapping, texturing. An hour is a gross oversimplification lol
That's just for the intro period. Commission/Buyout prices are generally along the lines of what's expected in 3 months of sales. So triple that for an exclusive.
Yeah, that reminds me of this old boss I had who'd ask for some weird analysis and then said "Don't you just have to press a button?". He was only half-kidding.
If you hate the heels on a pair of boots, it might be easier to just handle it with spot renders and post work.
Put two pairs of boots on the figure - one with a foot shape and flat sole that you like and one with a main body you like. Hide one pair, do your render. Hide the pair in the render, unhide the others and spot render the boots only. Blend and layer in Photoshop or GIMP. For best results, try to match the textures before you render.
Thanks for being the most helpful person in the thread :/
I guess I hadn't considered that I'd be attracting people who do this as a day-job and expect minimum wage, rather than people doing this as a hobby. I've been creating commission art pieces for a few years now, which is why I've got a hole burning in my paypal wallet along with a need for better quality flat boots (not the action-figure wellies people keep peddling on this place- thanks for the nerdsplaining links). I'd never consider charging the same prices as I command in my day-job.
I have to say, most of the people who've submitted resumes haven't shown a great deal of evidence that they can do what I want them to do, so it looks like I'm going to carry on bodging things.
Sorry for nerdsplaining some more.... but have you seen these?
(This is assuming you want more of a fantasy vibe.)
https://www.daz3d.com/s3d-fc-boots-for-genesis-3-and-8-females
https://www.daz3d.com/mage-apprentice-for-genesis-8-females
If these aren't what you're looking for, oh well. But I thought I'd at least mention them.
LOL
I work in the creative field (unrelated to 3d) and I always roll my eyes at the constant "... can't you simply do X real quick" and "... why is it so expeeeeeensive" and "can I have it by tomorrw?" by clueless clients. Something about creative work makes people forget that it's still work. Just because I'm having fun with my profession doesn't mean I don't have rent to pay.
Anyway, why did you put 200$ if you're not willing to pay 200$?
Sometimes I wonder how much a PA would charge for a commission if they could also sell it normally afterwards, or even if they would be interested in a commission like that at all.
You need to post some concepts or even real-life references. What you might want is seldom the same thing what the artist thinks you might want. This is why you're going to get prices and timeframes all over the place. When you go to a mechanic to fix your car they're not going to give you a quote before they diagnose the problem.
Be very precise in what you're asking people to do, otherwise you'll get ignored or feel you're not getting your money's worth.
The site's commission widget has a box you can check if you're willing to let the creator sell the item afterwards, which I ticked. I don't think it made much difference. Funnily enough, the site also helpfully suggested I post pictures of the sort of thing I wanted, to help artists decide if they'd be suitable for the job. I did that too, because I wasn't born yesterday.
What I've learned is to avoid asking questions on the DAZ forums, and to find some good tutorials on using Blender.
Shouldn't take more than an hour.
My day job is in finance. That still doesn't mean I'm going to do commission work for free. My time is worth money, even my free time. Obviously not as much as I make during my '9 to 5', but expecting an artist to work for nothing is insulting. I at least want to break even. I've spent upwards of 20hrs or more on commission pieces to only make $75. That's...that's just a slap in the face. My time would have been better spent working on something I wanted to work on and practicing my skills and execution where I wanted to practice them...which is why I stopped doing commissions. I wasn't growing as an artist while doing them. I grew more, much more, in the time I spent doing promo artwork for free. I was forced to work with stuff that was outside my comfort zone...and at least then in the end I got to keep the product. But even then, I wasn't working on stuff I wanted to work on...which was why I had to take a break to put my head down and work on stuff that brought me personal joy.
I remember this one time where a guy commisioned me to do a "full painting" of some bizarre (though not interesting) thing. He wanted a full backdrop, full color, everything done like some "fine art" oil painting masterpiece or something.
I agreed.
Just under an hour later he sent a message asking if I was done.
I said no.
30 minutes later he sent an angry message asking what the holdup was.
Why? Surely you gained some valuable info on the commission process you didn't have before and possibly helped others with the same interest.
That would depend on how good the idea was :D If it's something generally saleable, they might go low, but if it's really niche, been done a lot or doesn't have a good sale history, it likely won't save you much.
Probably because what they really wanted deep down was for people to tell them they were right, and 200 for 4 completely ustom modeled textured and rigged boots was actually super reasonable.
though I will say this is the first time I've seen someone upset about "here are some possible alternatives in this store" and wanting people to tell them to just go make it themselves in blender... normally its the second one that annoys folks