Intel guy needs advice about AMD processors & motherboards.
LeatherGryphon
Posts: 11,670
I've been an Intel person since Windows95 days. I know practically nothing about AMD processors. However, I now find myself in possession of a brand new motherboard that accomodates AMD processors (AM4 socket). I've gleaned bit and nibs of information about specific issues and requirements for AMD processors but still wandering in the dark.
The motherboard came as part of a package in a NewEgg "Shuffle" lottery win. I won the opportunity to buy an RTX-3060 graphics card but the motherboard came along with it. OK, so now what do I do with it? I've built a couple of nice Intel systems but haven't got a clue what to do with this motherboard.
What I think I know: It's a micro-ATX sized board, it's a relatively low-end/older generation gaming board. Has some RGB support, can handle lots of fast RAM (i.e. > 3200), has an M.2 socket but I'm not sure it supports NVMe storage protocol. I see 4 SATA ports on the board but somewhere I read that it supports 6.
I'm actually currently in the market to upgrade a 12 year old HP desktop and had been looking at Intel type motherboards until this dropped into my lap. I don't have a lot of money left over after having bought the graphics card and being forced to buy this motherboard too. Note: The graphics card is for my current Intel DAZing computer and WILL NOT be going onto the AMD motherboard.
What I'd like to know:
1) What kind of inexpensive AMD CPU could I use on this motherboard to make a nice general purpose machine for home and minor gaming support (no DAZing)?
2) The manual for the board says that the M.2 socket supports PCIe-3 and SATA, but doesn't specifically say NVMe support. Is the PCIe support only for things like WiFi and other non NVMe devices?
3) I see NewEgg and Amazon catalog entries specifically for AMD memories. What is the specific needs of RAM for AMD processors? i.e. Why are they different?
4) Do AMD processors come with a basic but adequate cooler, like Intel processors do?
5) The board has video outputs, but are they dependent on, or can they be independent of, the CPU or graphics card? I don't want to have to try to buy yet another graphics card if I can help it. But I read in the motherboard manual that the functionality of some of the PCI slots depends greatly on which type of video is in use on the board, I think depending on the support provided by the CPU or primary graphics card, if any. HELP!!! Totally lost here.
A few words from anybody in the know would be much appreciated.
Motherboard: https://www.newegg.com/asus-tuf-gaming-b450m-plus-ii/p/N82E16813119358?Item=N82E16813119358
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Comments
Being a 450 board just means it does not have PCIE 4.0, but being the 'Gaming' version it has all the other bells and whistles you could possibly want.
At most you may have to update the BIOS, but if it's new then that's probably been done.
PCIE 3.0 expansion slots instead of PCIE 4.0 is just about getting 550 frames per second out of Minecraft instead 600, it's so esoteric you would never notice it in use.
It's the same with the M.2, the difference between PCIE 3.0 and 4.0 makes very little difference to NVME performance, and disappears completely under sustained loads.
Lower spec. processors generally come with a good but basic cooler. It would be a shame to put any thing less than a 5600X processor (6 cores, 12 threads, with cooler).
AMD has a line of 'entry level/laptop' processors with a full GPU onboard which it calls APUs, that's when the video ports on the motherboard get used. These are obviously AMD graphics and very good for when you're on a budget.
If you must put in an APU try the Ryzen 5 3400g (4 cores, 8 threads) with a Radeon Vega 11 onboard.
@prixat Thank you!
Depending on your definition "inexpensive" is, a Ryzen 3700X 8 core 16 thread 4.2 GHz processor would make a killer machine for your needs. Walmart sells that for $319.00 You're saving the money on the momboard, so you can add a little to the processor for the oomph. Add an M.2 OS drive and a 10000 RPM Data drive, some RAM and you're done. (Don't skimp on the RAM- more is always better. Think 32Gig as a base)
Just be aware of your power needs. Whatever graphics card you use will need to have a good PSU.
..Joe
Hmmmm.....
What is your Intel System (that the 3060 went in) ?
The downside is that if you are now cash poor, getting the "new one" up and running will take some coin.
Ryzen 5 3600XT ~ $270
Western Digital WD BLACK SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB ~ $70
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 $100
But it will be pretty sweet when done, and I am sure you are going to be tempted to migrate the 3060 to the new machine!
Never ask a computer nerd what his machine is, he'll tell you.
Case: FractalDesign "Meshify-C" black (no window)
Case fans: Two Fractal Design "Prisma AL-12 RGB" 120mm intake, one non-RGB 120mm exhaust + power supply fan which rarely runs. And a 40mm Noctua fan to cool the SSD.
Motherboard: Asus "ATX PRIME_Z490-A"
CPU: Intel "i7-10700" 8-core, 16-thread
Cooler: Noctua "NHU14S" 140mm (overkill but looks impressive)
RAM: Corsair "Vengeance LPX 3200" 32GB (2 of 4 slots occupied)
Current Graphics card: 6GB MSI "Ventus XS OC" GeForce GTX1660
Future Graphics Card: new card will be 12GB ASUS "TUF Gaming GeForce RTX3060"
Power Supply: Corsair "RM850x"
Operating System: Microsoft "Windows10-Pro"
OS Storage: Samsung "970 EVO-Plus" M.2 NVMe SSD 1TB
Data1 Storage:Samsung "970 EVO-Plus" M.2 NVMe SSD 1TB
Data2 Storage:Samsung "860 EVO" SATA SSD 1TB
BackupA Storage: WesternDigital-Black 2TB HD
BackupB Storage: WesternDigital-Black 2TB HD
External ArchiveA: Seagate USB3 "Expansion" 4TB 2.5inch
External ArchiveB: WesternDigital USB2 "MyBook" 640GB 3.5inch
Optical Drive: Plextor external USB2 DVD-RW
LAN: 1Gb/sec wired LAN
WAN: Windstream DSL 100Mb/sec service. (Measured at 69 down, 9 up)
Keyboards: 1 wired, 1 wireless
Mice: 1 wired, 1 wireless
Monitor1 27" HP "X27i" 1440-2K
Monitor2 24" HP "VH240a" 1080-HD
Monitor3 42" Panasonic TV "TC-L42E60" 1080-HD
Speakers: Cambridge Soundworks model "SBS-52"
Headphones: Sennheiser "PX360"
Microphone: cheap POS
Right now I have no plans to migrate to a new machine. The RTX-3060 is going to replace a GTX-1660** in my current DAZing machine and I'm still not through converting and tidying up my DAZ data from the last migration. I spent a lot of money, time, effort and research in acquiring, assembling & creating this beast.
The new motherboard is an extravagance right now. I'm still considering what to do with it. I have no need for it. I already have two powerful machines less than 2 years old. The 12 year old HP that I was considering majorly upgrading was to be a gift to a non-computer-savvy family member and I hadn't planned on spending more than $350 on the upgrade (motherboard, 2-core processor, 8GB ram). I realize that the new AMD motherboard that I was forced to buy along with the RTX-3060 graphics card, is a decent board but as you pointed out, it's begging for some decent parts to go with it and the parts you suggest are tempting. Thank you.
But, I really can't justify or afford to build another powerful machine and have considered selling or trading the AMD board for a suitable Intel board for the HP. The AMD board cost me about $110 with tax and shipping. I'd like it back.
**The GTX-1660 will be going into my secondary machine*** to replace the native on-board graphics. This has been my plan for over a year.
***Go ahead, make my day. Ask me what my secondary machine is.
I'll do one better: What's your tertiary machine?
You're on. But you must reciprocate.
My tertiary machine is a 10 year old 8GB HP Pavilion h8-1010, that has been upgraded with a new 4-core 2nd generation i5-2500S instead of the original 2-core i5-2390T CPU, also upgraded with a new Corsair CX450 power supply, a 500GB Crucial MX500 SATA SSD for the OS and a WD-black 1TB for backup. It went through Win7, Win8, Win8.1 and currently runs Win10-Pro, has oodles of USB2 and USB3 ports that are no longer needed because most of the duties have been taken over by my primary and secondary machines.
My quatrinary machine is a 11 year old 4GB HP laptop G60-642NR. Fully functional, unblemished condition. Recently upgraded with a new battery and a Crucial MX500 500GB SSD running Win10-Pro.
My quintinary machine is a 13 year old 8GB HP desktop upgraded with Crucial 500GB MX500 SSD and WD-Black HD. Running Win10-Home
My sextinary machine is a 14 year old 8GB HP desktop upgraded with Crucial 500GB MX500 SSD and WD-Black HD. Running Win10-Home (This is the machine slated to be majorly upgraded and gifted to a needy family member.)
My septinary machine is a 17 year old DELL Dimension 3000 32-bit 2GB fully functional & upgraded to the latest WinXP and with two 80GB WD hard drives but languishing on a shelf.
My octinary machine is a 19 year old DELL Dimension 2350 32-bit 2GB fully functional & upgraded to the latest WinXP and with two 80GB WD hard drives but languishing on a shelf.
All my other older "children" have been euthanized and scavanged for parts. (No museum was interested.)
AND SECOND BUT NOT LEAST...
I know you didn't specifically repeat your request, but my secondary machine is my daily workhorse and showpiece to impress non-computer-savvy visitors with lights and complexity and is as follows:
Case: FractalDesign "Focus G" Black ATX (clear window)
Case fans: Two FractalDesign white LED, 120mm intake, One Thermaltake "Riing 12 Series blue LED" 120mm exhaust.
Motherboard: Asus "PRIME B360M-A"
CPU: Intel "i5-8600" 6-core, 6-thread
Cooler: Cooler Master "i71C RGB"
RAM: Corsair "Vengeance LPX 2666" 32GB (4x8)
Current Graphics: <none> on-board graphics via CPU
Future Graphics Card: new card will be MSI "Ventus XS OC" GeForce GTX1660
Power Supply: Corsair "RM650x"
Operating System: Microsoft "Windows10-Pro"
OS Storage: Samsung "970 EVO-Plus" M.2 NVMe SSD 500GB
Data1 Storage: Samsung "970 EVO-Plus" M.2 NVMe SSD 1TB
Data2 Storage: WesternDigital-Black 1TB HD
Data3 Storage: Samsung "970 EVO Plus" M.2 NVMe SSD 1TB
BackupA Storage: WesternDigital-Black 2TB HD
BackupB Storage: WesternDigital-Black 2TB HD
External ArchiveA: WesternDigital "Elements" USB3 6TB 3.5inch
External ArchiveB: WesternDigital "Elements" USB3 6TB 3.5inch
External ArchiveC: WesternDigital "MyBook" USB3 4TB 3.5inch
Optical Drive: Asus "DRW-24B1ST" 5.25" Internal DVD-RW
LAN: 1Gb/sec wired LAN
WAN: Windstream DSL 100Mb/sec service. (Measured at 69 down, 9 up)
Keyboard: 1 wired, 1 wireless
Mouse: 1 wired, 1 wireless
Monitor1 27" "HP X27i" 1440-2K
Monitor2 23" "Acer S231HL" 1080-HD
Speakers: Cambridge Soundworks model "SBS-52"
Headphones: Cheap noname gaming headset with microphone
RGB environment: Speclux "5050 LED" Light Strips, plus the CPU cooler & three fans identified above
Thank you for prompting me to make these lists. I'd been intending to do this for nearly a year.
Note: Edited several times for accuracy.
Nothing lasts that long round here. I continually upgrade components, then eventually get a new machine. It's been 11 years and I got a new machine last month.
The old one will hang around for a few months then end up as parts.
The new system is very similar to your primary, but Ryzen based.
Case fans: Two 140mm input, one 120mm exhaust, a compact Arctic Freezer 7X on the CPU.
Motherboard: Asus B550M-A
CPU: Ryzen 7 5800X (8 core, 16 thread)
Cooler: Noctua NHU14S (overkill but looks impressive)
RAM: Corsair Vengence LPX 3200 32GB (4x8)
Graphics Card: EVGA RTX-3060
Operating System: Windows10-Home
OS Storage: Intel 660p M.2 NVMe 1TB
Data1 Storage: WD Blue SN550 M.2 NVMe 2TB
Do you know if Daz can render in Iray on your Ryzen CPU? It probably does, but seeing AMD GPUs are hit and miss when it comes to Daz Studio, then I think I'd rather stick with something that I know (AMD CPU). Plus, I'm trying to find an upgrade (or replacement) for my AMD Radeon CPU.
Yes, Iray works without problems on a Ryzen CPU, but there's realy no alternative to an nVidia GPU, nVidia have us by the short and CUDAs.
For what it's worth one should be careful about purchasing a gaming PC from Walmart. It maybe a very powerful machine but could have undersized PSU and not so quality parts such as fans, CPU cooler, etc. And above all check out the warranties some only have a 1 year warranty and only on some parts. When I built my own machine I tried to stick to parts with a 3-5 year warranty. My PSU has a lifetime warranty for an example.
*chuckles* I know I should have a GPU, but it all comes down to the price/cost. Ideally, I'd love a new computer with a GPU, but the one that I wanted is no longer available. So I'll have to start my search all over again.
Thank you for replying