What is the bone rotation "view" in DAZ that allows bending, twisting, etc.

ForestBoy

Hello!

In DAZ3D, I can conviniently bend fingers.

However, in other softwares (I have tried Blender and 3DSMax) I can not get them to bend that nicely.

Instead, the bones do not bend along the axis.

I have tried various pivot settings like "World, Local", etc. 

None of them allowed me to rotate the fingers as in DAZ3D.

What am I missing?

 

Thank you!

margrave

How did you get the model into Blender? Because the bones are not connected, which is unusual. I could tell you how to fix it if they were connected.

johann.hesters_2e9dd0ece9

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ForestBoy

I have exported the model as an fbx. 

Here is a short video of how I did it: 

 

margrave

I know nothing about FBX exporting, but check if there's an option to connect bones or something like that. Or, better yet, use either the Diffeomorphic exporter or the official Daz exporter, because something's not working right.

ForestBoy

While I appreciate the possible solution of using Diffeomorphic, can somebody please jump in and answer my original question?

margrave

You need to go into edit mode for the armature, connect the bones together, and set the bone roll so the orientation matches the way they're supposed to bend.

ForestBoy

@margrave

1) Thank you for the link to Diffeomorphic, I can confirm that this tool fixes the problems, however, it introduces other problems. It changes some things, and it's no longer compatible with the original fbx. Not sure what exactely the problem is, but something about non uniform scale. So it doesn't help me.

2) I wonder what the problem is. If I export the model from DAZ as an FBX, and import it into DAZ again, the bone roll is perfectly fine.

So I would assume that Blender (and Max) have some import problems while the fbx itself is fine.

3) Editing the bone roll is the least I would try to do. I don't want to mess the model up while in theory it should already be perfectly fine without any tweaks.

Would you agree to that?

margrave

When you import the FBX file into Blender, trying checking "Force Connect Children".

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/2.80/addons/io_scene_fbx.html

ForestBoy

I have tried that. I can't get it right in Blender.

If I import the same FBX back to DAZ, it works perfectly fine. Of course, there is no more "Finger bend" property, it's named differently because DAZ doesn't know that it was the G2F model, but apart from that, it works perfectly fine.

I think it's a problem in Blender and Max. I have filed a bug report for Blender.

ForestBoy

But what is really strange is that even Unity has this error.

So only DAZ is able to get it right. I find that confusing.

TheMysteryIsThePoint

Select the bone in pose mode and use rxx for bend, ryy for side to side, and rzz for twist.

ForestBoy

@TheMysteryIsThePoint Sure, that is what I'm doing in Blender. It doesn't behave like in DAZ3D. Can you please quickly confirm it? I have already spent 3 days testing, somebody with a fresh mind would really help to assure that I haven't made any obvious mistake.

TheMysteryIsThePoint

ForestBoy said:

@TheMysteryIsThePoint Sure, that is what I'm doing in Blender. It doesn't behave like in DAZ3D. Can you please quickly confirm it? I have already spent 3 days testing, somebody with a fresh mind would really help to assure that I haven't made any obvious mistake.

@ForestBoy From the video, it looked like it was rotating around the global axis, which is what you'd get if that's what it was currently set to do and you're using the gizmo. It's equivalent to rx, ry, and rz. The keyboard shortcut to rotate around the local axes are rxx, ryy, and rzz. Or I think you could change the "center of transformation" or whatever it's called (I'm away from my computer) to local axes. If that doesn't work, then you've lost the initial rotations during import and Blender doesn't know what the bones' local rotations are. I'll do an export with your method and see.

TheMysteryIsThePoint

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

ForestBoy said:

@TheMysteryIsThePoint Sure, that is what I'm doing in Blender. It doesn't behave like in DAZ3D. Can you please quickly confirm it? I have already spent 3 days testing, somebody with a fresh mind would really help to assure that I haven't made any obvious mistake.

@ForestBoy OK, you are right. g8m works like I described, but there's something different about g2m. While I could get Blender's stock FBX import to work with g8m, the g2m's axes were wrong. It did recognize that the bone's axis was not aligned with the global coordinate system (as rx and rxx showed different axes), the local axis was not what it should have been, i.e. not appearing to be aligned with the bone.

But this worked perfectly on both g8 and g2 with rxx working how we both expected it to.

The Autodesk FBX SDK's license is not compatible with the GPLv2 license under which Blender is released, and so they've had to reverse engineer the FBX protocol, with varying degrees of success. The Better FBX Importer uses the official SDK, but does not directly link it to Blender, and thus does not violate the letter of the GPLv2. God, I cannot wait for USD to kill off FBX once and for all.