dForce Brookes Autumn Outfit for Genesis 8 Females weird boob shapes
Pitmatic
Posts: 917
Hi
Picked up the new dForce Brookes Autumn Outfit for Genesis 8 Females and the sweater has odd looking boob lump shapes and if i dforce it the shapes are still there but a spike appears mid boob
I realise I am not descripbing this very well but here are some renders with and with out deforce simulation the figure is an unmodified Moriah.
no dforce
with dforce
temp.png
690 x 900 - 656K
temp.png
690 x 900 - 656K
Post edited by Pitmatic on
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Comments
This is... unfortunately pretty standard if the creator doesn't add rigidity maps to the area. While it's a problem that can be fixed by morph by morph correctives (and many outfits have fixes for the standard Daz Original body morphs), that approach immediately falls apart any time if other morphs are used - basically any body shape that includes its own breast shaping. Submit a ticket about it, because it's not particularly easy to fix if you're not already familiar with rigidity mapping.
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As is, I'm not seeing any difference between your images, so you may have mistakenly uploaded the same image twice. (Or that part of the outfit is not dynamic, but unless there were something to sim, dForce shouldn't've run). That said, in clothing items that are fully dynamic, it can potentially be handled by doing a timeline simulation that fades the bodyshape in over time - on the left, autofollow. On the right, a dForce fitting:
Actually it look more like the switch from an area with rigidity to an area without, rather than a lack - unfortunately rigidity is on or off, it doesn't allow a smooth transition.
A Smoothing Modifier set to Generic might help a bit.
... I may be *wildly* wrong here, but that's surely what the rigidity maps are for?
While the group and its references have to have either include or exclude vertices, the map can inform each vertex what proportion of its natural or rigid positions to use.
I raised a ticket and shall see how it rolls
Sorry I didnt realise I uploaded twisce a spike apears between the boob depending on pose and weather or not the coat is also on
That kind of thing is one of my primary reasons for using the Fit Control products. With some vendors' characters, it's almost guaranteed to happen.
That's why I tend to use body shapes not far from the base figure. I know it's not a good answer, but it helps to alleviate odd stretching and distortions on armor, etc.
Another tactic is to select the clothing object and check the 'currently used' parameters...dialing out the figure's morph from the clothing quite often helps, especially when coupled with dForce. I also use this tactic to fix necklace wonk, as that's another culprit for uber distortion with figures morphed away from base.
This is relatively easy to fix actually when simulating. I used to get this a LOT when I simulated current frame only. Basically I set my pose at the halfway mark of a 30 frame simulation (for most clothing and such this is fine). The key is to then set the shape of the figure near the end, I do this at the 25 mark (5 - 10 from final frame) and do a slow fade in of the shape as Matt mentioned above.
By doing this it will usually correct that issue when simulated - not always, but most times and it will improve it immensely if it doesn't fix it completely,
One important note is that I occasionally have to go back to the first frame and zero the morph and pose so it starts from zero instead of applying to the entire timeline.
Rigidity groups are simple member/not member vertex groups - they do not have any kind of weight map associated with them. It's a feature I hope they add in the next DS major update, though it may well be that its overhead would be worse than any benefits.
If you increase the size of her assets enough, all the creases go away...
From http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/rigging/tutorials/rigidity/start: "The strength of the effect will be determined by the figure's Rigidity Weight Map"
Does that mean I'm grossly misusing these then? Because that's precisely what I thought their function was - smoothing the transitions of rigidity groups.
I downloaded the store version of the outfit, and I notice that smoothing and collision iterations were turned off. Make sure smoothing is set to 2 and collision iterations to 3. That should rectify the bunching. I will open a ticket for DAZ to fix this on their end since they now own the product.
Also, the product page shows the supported morphs. If the character you dialed uses breast morphs that are unsupported, you might be able to smooth them out by increasing the smoothing. At any rate, 3-D Arena's suggestion to use the timeline when simulating should take care of the problem.
some extreme shapes do cause chest distortion, in which case i dforce a time line sim from base shape to the shape I need; or, if i make the character, I have done a couple projection morphs to get clothing more or less in the right area before dforcing.
you can definitely control rigidity with weightmaps. its still fiddly mind you but doable
other option for OP: in the default pose set your smoothing modifier to base shape matching with iterations of 20 or so. under edit>figure>geometry select bake smoothed morps and select the morph most likely to be causing the issue this will bake the smoothing to the selected morphs and you can then set the smoothing modifier back to whatever it was originally
Huh, well I wasn't aware of that - sorry for misleading. That is an very old tutorial too, the assignment is now in the vertex mode rather than polygon.
I tried @wilddesigns suggestion but no its still lumpy.
Pitmatic, you are using a custom morph. Try using just Genesis 8 Female or one of the other supported morphs. Your character is an unsupported morph.
This is nice, blaming a customer for a subpar product you created.
Most well made, and even just adequate, items of clothing I have purchased work on characters of the same generation. If the op was trying to fit a G8F outfit to Genesis 1 or a G8M outfit to G8F, your comment would be appropriate. Having this problem fitting a G8F outfit to a G8F character and claiming it's the users fault is going too far.
You have lost a customer.
It is literally impossible to support custom shapes that users create. Without the shape, the creator can't customize a fit in the outfit. The figure the sweater is on is not a default G8F. She's not blaming the customer. She's suggesting ways that her outfit can support the customer.
Correct. I am not blaming the customer. The supported character morphs are located on the product page. With the number of character morphs out, and more coming every day, it is an impossible task to support each and every one.
If you use simulation, follow 3_D Arena's directions. The outfit will simulate to the body morph.
There are no rigidity maps in the sweater.
Zylox, I am sorry you feel this way.
It's the breast undercurve morph that is causing the problem. Reducing the value of this morph will improve the fit.
What I normally try whit this kind of deformations is to check the value of the"Bend stiffness" in the "Surfaces settings" of the cloth and reduce this to 0.05 or even lower.
This makes the cloth more flexible in the simulation and in most case cures the fitting.
It may also help to increase the smoothing of the sweater to around 20, see images both rendered without dforce applied to the sweater just autofitted to G8F. Breast undercurve was set to 10 for this model.
Whit this sweater dforce isn't needed just increase the smooting for better fitting to your model.
light background smoothing=0 , dark background smoothing=20 resp 13
Last 2 images ; undercurve=85 smoothing=0 resp. 13.
Just keep it simple!
I might be doing things wrong I am just a duffer I do not use custom shapes other than the out of the box shapes the custom charcters come with most of my renders use Moriah, Blue, Sazsa, Sahel, Ensley and Vicky8
I got it to smooth out by upping the smoothing as suggested and 13 worked for me the example i have attached is with simulation as the top will go through the skin under the arms if you dont.
And thank you Wilddesigns for contacting me it was appreciated.
On a general note on improving breast fits, a trick from my own repertoire.
Some characters - mostly the core characters, but occasionally a few others - come with MCMs designed to dial in with the "Breasts Gone" morph. If you have an outfit that does not have a fit for a specific character (many core characters are very well supported in this respect, others are not), this corrective is very useful, as it basically has to reset the breast shape to standard in order that the Breasts Gone morph still functions.
So, for an example:
On the left we have default Latonya 8. On the right, I've dialled in the MCMLatonya8_BreastsGone corrective to 100% (Breasts Gone is still set to 0%, I'm just using the corrective, which is found under hidden controls), and replaced it with 75% Breast Size. Her body shape still ends up pretty similar (slightly different, but not enough that you'd really notice), but it has done quite a lot to improve the fit, which now clings less around her breasts - because this shirt, like many, has a corrective that knows how to deal with this shape of breast when it comes from Breasts Size (a very commonly supported morph) but not when it's a baked in-part of Latonya's morph.
Alas, only so many characters come with the corrective to dial out their breast shape, but it's much appreciated when it does exist. Actually, with how much breast morphs can mess things up, I would personally love to see more characters that made use of the standard (and well supported) DO morphs for the chest area.
Thank you Matt I shall give that a go if/when I have more breast problems...
Finally got an update from support on this
Hello again,
Thank you for patiently waiting for a response. Our QA team informed us they tested this and found that everything is working as it should. The outfit has listed what shapes and morphs are supports, and the outfit only supports certain breast morphs and certain characters. The support breast morphs were tested and worked as expected.
Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee all morphs will work with every outfit and any shapes used outside of what is listed have not been tested and are at the users discretion.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
looking at the supported figures in the product description (ignoring pear figure etc etc)
It would imply by supports answer that this outfit ONLY works with these characters now if i took that approach with what I buy on Daz I would buy nothing OR I would be returning items left right and centre.
Ah well
Not exactly. It's more like “we can guarantee it works with the supported characters, results may vary with other characters".
Or "Welcome back to V4 era...", clothes do not fit unless there is a corresponding morph supplied with the clothing, or the clothing has been tagged with dForce and looks like a potato sack without simulation.