OS Big Sur and the M1 chip
deeahr2169
Posts: 449
I have two Macs at this moment in time, one rather ancient 27” iMac which I have and continue to use to run Daz. This is fine up to a point but means that I cannot explore dforce which I would very much like to.
The other machine is practically new Mac mini with M1 chip running OS Big Sur, which cannot run Daz.
I notice from post by Richard on February 17 that there is a work around involving running windows on the Mac but because its not ideal I am happy to wait for Daz to become available for Big Sur.
My question is, and bearing in mind that we are almost half way thro 2021 is there any news about how long the update will be before being released.
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Hi deeahr2169.
I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm running DAZ Studio on an Intel based MacBook Pro and have an M1 MacBook Air ready to run the future version of DAZ Studio.
There's no news thus far other than what you've already seen. We've been asked to check the release notes thread to see if there are any updates relating to Big Sur/Apple Silicon. There will almost certainly be a major announcement when the new version of DAZ Studio arrives. I think we need to keep waiting. :)
Lee
I thought that would be the case except I dont know enough about the release notes and stuff to follow the threads. I would imagine that upgrading to the M1 chip is a huge job and who knows if it will be, as Apple seems to think, the way things will go in the future, so its a question of hurrying up and waiting.
Thanks Lee
I would imagine the minimum SDK version to be changed in the release notes when they make the "Big Jump". For now it still says "SDK min is 4.5.0.100"
Upgrading to the m1 chip hasn't actually been mentioned, I don't believe (if they did, I missed it, but it woudl be nice to be wrong); they're upgrading it to run under Big Sur and by doing so (via updating to a newer qt) also giving us Filament. If it can run under Big Sur, the m1 should run under Rosetta (other 3D software already does); if they actually make it m1-native, that would be icing on the cake.
-- Walt Sterdan
The M1 chip has nothing to do with the Big Sur problem.
Sure would be nice if we could get an update on how things are progressing. :T
Yes, an update on an actual 'Launch Date' timeline would be nice, other than "Mid-2021'.
The 'Bootcamp' work-around is kind of a silly option considering most Mac users have no other need to run Windows on their Macs. It'a only to use DAZ Studio for their art.
And Mac 'Big Sur' was introduced, 8 months ago now. ...Just saying, guys.
Told y'all they'd prioritize NFT garbage over, yanno, actually doing the work needed to get Mac users up and running on the new OS.
Seriously, we're just better off getting Diffeomorphic and importing everything into Blender these days.
They who? What do NFTs have to do with the people working on Daz Studio? Development isn't some simple, by-the-numbers process that any warm body can handle.
Hi,
I'm using the M1 Macbook with Daz Studio Windows version (the latest) using Crossover. It has a trial you can download. Basically everything works (even iray rendering) except the CMS thing. If you do not rely on smart content features, then it is a good solution.
Best regards,
Minh
The problem has really nothing to do with Big Sur. Could have happened without Big Sur, or the M1 chip, as the important change was announced years ago by Apple. It was happenstantial.
Richard, come on now. The fact we've had radio silence on any update since February is, disappointing and frustrating as a customer of 10 years. Just an update from someone in the dev team to let us Mac users know we haven't been forgotten would go a long way to ease worries, rather than your dismissive remarks that cape for Daz's upper management. Just saying.
I suppose, in a pinch, one of those warm bodies (possibly from Marketting or Customer Service) could ask/phone/email/text someone on the Mac development team and ask them, "How's it going?". Depending on the answer, the same warm body might tell us, "Things are going better than expected and we hope to have the Mac Big Sur update with Filament a little sooner than expected", or "We're right on track and should have it for you guys at the end of July, early August" or even, "We've run into a couple of unforseen glitches and we're running a little late, but don't worry, we're still working hard on it!"... just so we'd know.
-- Walt Sterdan
It's not only about the MAC version, since updating the Qt means both the MAC and Windows versions are going to have a major update - Wouldn't hold my breath for receiving it before summer vacations.
When you run the program on Big Sur, it spits out the error message that a library is missing. From there, Apple support searches will result in a release note hit.
"We've been so busy answering status requests and filling in update reports we haven't done any work on it."
With the lack of status reports and a more detailed roadmap beyond "the Mac version will be updated to enable it to run Big Sur and Filament for mid summer" it's guesswork as to where anythiing is at the moment or how hard anything is.
I understand that updating the Qt libraries will very probably break some plug-ins on both Windows and Mac, but without details it's hard to guess where each OS update is. I suspect that the Windows is much further along.
When I asked a few months ago if it would be possible to get Filament running on the Mac first and follow up with Big Sur later, I was told by a knowlegable forummuite (but non-staffer) that an update to Qt would need to be done first as Filament wouldn't work under the current version of Qt.
If true -- and in the lack of DAZ feedback on the issue I would assume it's true -- I would have to assume that the Windows must be running a newer verson of Qt, if not the latest version, otherwise they couldn't be using Filament.
D|S currently runs on the latest versoin of Windows, it hasn't run on the current version of Mac OS since November 12, 2020 (although the OS update was announced to developers -- like DAZ -- on June 22, 2020 and I would have hoped they'd have started looking into it then). With the exception of mostly-3rd party plug-ins, I strongly suspect that there will be a lot less work updating the the Windows version of D|S than with the Mac but I'm not sure if it would be possible to release a Mac update first and let the Windows version catch up. Theoritcally, it would have been possible to be working on the Big Sur update for almost a year now, in tandem with a Windows fork, but again, no idea of what the plan is or was, nor how it's going. No communication regarding updates.
I don't belittle the undertaking of updating Qt (though I question if it might not be better to switch from Qt to something easier to maintain or update, as other cross-platform 3D programs appear to have far fewer problems keeping OS parity, being able to not only run Big Sur, but keep running with Roseatta 2 and an m1 chip from day one).
"Summer vacations" begin in three or four weeks, and no, I'm not holding my breath.
Back in December I made the decison to purchase an older Mac laptop instead of an m1 simple because I wanted to be able to run D|S for the nine months or so that it would take DAZ to update the program to be able -- at a minimum -- run on a new machine. I'm looking at another new desktop machine but at this point I have no idea how long it would be until I could run D|S but I have to start wondering if it's time to move on from DAZ. It's been a fun -- albeit very expensive -- couple of decades of fun, but maybe it's time to have doing something else. If nothing else, I'd save hundreds of dollars ecery couple of months for some other hobby.
The Windows customers aren't really holding their breath as beyond the possibility of something *breaking*, they're not really waiting for anything big and new with the Qt update, are they? Maybe they are, but I've only heard that DAZ was trying to get the latest OS and Filament running, I don't remember any other huge announcements of any new features hitting Windows at the same time. Their OS works, Filament works, and will probably keep working after the Qt update. It's hard to get too excited about "it'll keep working".
So, while I agree that "it's not only about the MAC version", and I won't "hold my breath for receiving it before summer vacations", what I don't agree with is that, as stated above, wanting to know how the MAC version is progressing shouldn't be something I need to hold my breath about.
Total dollar cost to issue an update about how the MAC update is going? Zero. Zero dollars. Total "warm body" manpower hours involved in providing custemers/investors updates on how the Mac update is goiing? Minutes. Reason for not providing a minimal status report on the update?
-- Watl Sterdan
As long as the "Release notes" tells minimum SDK version to be 4.5.100, there is no new Qt for either version of DS.
The required changes are large enough that the version of DS with the new Qt will most likely be called DS 5.0
The time you took to double-check the release notes and post here is roughly how long it would take a paid employee to update the status.
-- Walt Sterdan
I was querying your assertion that "they" prioritised NFTs over Big Sur compatibility. Your reply has considerably greater scope, and ignores my point.
Will break, that has been stated.
The whole point of Qt is that it is cross paltform, I would therefore imagine that the two versions are - at least in this respect - in lockstep.
It may be that the Mac version of Filament has different dependencies - if, for example, it uses one of the post-Open*L APIs while the Windows version still uses the Open*L APIs - which in turn give it a higher version requirement for Qt.
At the introduction of Big Sur, Apple finally removed a deprecated C library that it has been warning about. Programs using this older library no loger run, and must be recompiled to use the new.
"While you're waiting for an update on Big Sur-compatible DS, and we know you've been waiting since February... could we interest you in some NFT during this trying time?"
I posted a question about Mac compatibility yesterday. Naturally and as usual, it was closed with only a link pointing to this thread and this thread is essentially useless, tells me nothing about my original question and doesn't give me any update about the progress in releasing a Mac compatible version of Studio. There will be of course some response from some moderator about "these forums being for users... blah blah blah" but that will of course fail to address the issue of whether those of us on Mac platforms who have spent many,many thousands of dollars in the Daz store over the years to be able to use that content on our Mac computers without some ridiculously cumbersome bootcamp/crossover/Parallels process, all of which remain far, far less than ideal.
All I asked was: Has there been any progress and what kind of time frame are we looking at now that we're in mid 2021? I kinda think, given the amount of money we spend with this company, we're due better treatment from it.
Sadly, there simply is no news. The dev log seems to show hints that progress is being made, but that is it as far as official sources. Daz has stated that this is a difficult upgrade to undertake, and will effect the Windows version as well. The dev team for DS is small, so I assume the difficult work is still underway... theres only so much work a small team can get done.
But I agree, it'd be nice for an official voice to just pop in and say "Yes its still underway, and will maybe be done by ____"
if there had been any update it would be posted to at least this thread, the announcement thread, or at least one other unlocked thread on Big Sur compatibility.
Well, that was easy! Running as a Wine component, but it's FAST! Mac mini M1.
Glad to hear there’s another way to run the Windows version of D|S; when you say “FAST” can you estimate if it’s faster than a non-m1 Mac, and if so, roughly how much faster?
At any rate, thanks to the project status updates over the last eight months, we know that it’s not here yet/might be here soon/might be having problems/may be a few more months for the Mac Big Sur/Filament update, and some of us can use that info for planning our next Mac updates/purchases.
— Walt “getting just a little grumpy” Sterdan
It's the silence that's the issue. Nothing. Not a chirp. Not a peep. Silence. We are due something like: "Daz understands that some users on the Mac OS platform are frustrated that a solution to the Big Sur compatiblity issue has yet to be released but we want to assure you that we are continuing to explore all available solutions. At this time, we don't have a clear idea of when that might be but work is continuing." Or: "This is a very difficult announcement but the Daz development team regrets to inform you that a solution to the Mac OS compatibiltiy issue is not possible..." Or whatever.
The vacuum of silence with the problem. It's a black hole. I use many many applications on my computer but, without exception, the level of communication coming from Daz regarding its products, issues and developments is by far the worst. Yeah, sure there may be some post in the massive warren of posts with some tiny tidbit that can be mined by those who've got the time to dig through the endless spiderweb threads but hey, how about a weekly or biweekly emailed newsletter that's something more than just what's new or on sale in the store?
Would that be so hard? It seems like most other develpers of software products can manage it.
I know it is still being worked on, but as I understand it it the work is not something that can be released part done and it isn't something that admits of estimating how nearly there they are to give an ETA.