V6 Eye Surround Distortion with Point to in Poser

davidcaputokeene

The point to setting in Poser 2014 on V6 eyes aimed at a camera leads to a fracture distortion around the lids when not in straight on camera pose and this gets worse with the rotation because of camera dolly movement.
It seems to be something other than the lids getting fractured. Is it the scelera which seems to be a separate geometry in V^ and not in any other characters I have used?
I deform/morph V6 in DS and then export/import an .obj file (subdivision level 1) in DS - then transfer the rigging from the DS character and adjust rigging to the shape then export to Poser as a CR2. It seems to be a rigging question around the centering of the eyeballs and surrounding geometry.
Does anyone have any ideas what I'm doing wrong or what I need to do to fix this please?

davidcaputokeene

Here are 3 screen shots of the left eye set to point at face camera (1) front straight on(2) left rotate (3) left rotate and down.

Male-M3dia

I believe the endpoints, scaling and adjustable rigging was never finished in the CR2 exporter. This is one of the reasons why the DSON importer was created. I don't believe there's been any updates to the exporter since the first few months after the release of Genesis 1.

You may have to redo the rigging also in poser as the initial rigging was made for the base resolution (no subdivisions). At the very least you have a lot of issues to fix in the CR2.

davidcaputokeene

Male-M3dia said:

I believe the endpoints, scaling and adjustable rigging was never finished in the CR2 exporter. This is one of the reasons why the DSON importer was created. I don't believe there's been any updates to the exporter since the first few months after the release of Genesis 1.

You may have to redo the rigging also in poser as the initial rigging was made for the base resolution (no subdivisions). At the very least you have a lot of issues to fix in the CR2.

Thanks for the info. So should I be able to import the duf with the DSON importer instead of exporting the CR2? Could you point me to some quick learning doc on how to adjust endpoint - scaling and adjustable rigging as I've never tackled this before?

Male-M3dia

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/modeling/tutorials/auto_rig/start

That's pretty much a start. Since you only need to adjust the eyes, just make sure those are selected in both panes that you get when you select the "Adjust Rigging" to shape. Since it's a custom morph, I would also check the position of the jaws as well before you do this, as the upper jaw may need to be adjusted as well. (In DS, just click on the head and all the emotion dials are there and maybe find "Open Mouth Wide" to make sure the teeth look like they are in the right spot)

Once you adjust the rigging, then you would ERC Freeze the changes on to your custom morph. To do this, you would

1) Select the morph in the parameter's pane.
2) Right click on the morph and select "Edit". DS will go into edit mode with that morph selected.
3) Right click on the morph again and select "ERC Freeze" and make sure only the rigging changes are checked off and select "OK"

This should save all of your rigging to your morph, then you can save your custom morph again and it will have the eye rigging changes as well.

Then you can test it out in poser.

davidcaputokeene

Male-M3dia said:

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/modeling/tutorials/auto_rig/start

That's pretty much a start. Since you only need to adjust the eyes, just make sure those are selected in both panes that you get when you select the "Adjust Rigging" to shape. Since it's a custom morph, I would also check the position of the jaws as well before you do this, as the upper jaw may need to be adjusted as well. (In DS, just click on the head and all the emotion dials are there and maybe find "Open Mouth Wide" to make sure the teeth look like they are in the right spot)

Once you adjust the rigging, then you would ERC Freeze the changes on to your custom morph. To do this, you would

1) Select the morph in the parameter's pane.
2) Right click on the morph and select "Edit". DS will go into edit mode with that morph selected.
3) Right click on the morph again and select "ERC Freeze" and make sure only the rigging changes are checked off and select "OK"

This should save all of your rigging to your morph, then you can save your custom morph again and it will have the eye rigging changes as well.

Then you can test it out in poser.

Thank you very much for your help here. This is so clear and to the point.

Right now I can get to the 'freeze ERC' stage and then (I really don't know if I have some setting that won't let me minimize DS main screen or whether it has locked up) but I can't get to the freeze option pane to accept ?

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

davidcaputokeene

Male-M3dia said:

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/modeling/tutorials/auto_rig/start

That's pretty much a start. Since you only need to adjust the eyes, just make sure those are selected in both panes that you get when you select the "Adjust Rigging" to shape. Since it's a custom morph, I would also check the position of the jaws as well before you do this, as the upper jaw may need to be adjusted as well. (In DS, just click on the head and all the emotion dials are there and maybe find "Open Mouth Wide" to make sure the teeth look like they are in the right spot)

Once you adjust the rigging, then you would ERC Freeze the changes on to your custom morph. To do this, you would

1) Select the morph in the parameter's pane.
2) Right click on the morph and select "Edit". DS will go into edit mode with that morph selected.
3) Right click on the morph again and select "ERC Freeze" and make sure only the rigging changes are checked off and select "OK"

This should save all of your rigging to your morph, then you can save your custom morph again and it will have the eye rigging changes as well.

Then you can test it out in poser.

I'm actually working on a character .duf/CR2 custom figure - so do I need to freeze ERC when saving as? I seem to lock up the app when freezing ERC.

davidcaputokeene

dave43 said:

Male-M3dia said:

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/modeling/tutorials/auto_rig/start

That's pretty much a start. Since you only need to adjust the eyes, just make sure those are selected in both panes that you get when you select the "Adjust Rigging" to shape. Since it's a custom morph, I would also check the position of the jaws as well before you do this, as the upper jaw may need to be adjusted as well. (In DS, just click on the head and all the emotion dials are there and maybe find "Open Mouth Wide" to make sure the teeth look like they are in the right spot)

Once you adjust the rigging, then you would ERC Freeze the changes on to your custom morph. To do this, you would

1) Select the morph in the parameter's pane.
2) Right click on the morph and select "Edit". DS will go into edit mode with that morph selected.
3) Right click on the morph again and select "ERC Freeze" and make sure only the rigging changes are checked off and select "OK"

This should save all of your rigging to your morph, then you can save your custom morph again and it will have the eye rigging changes as well.

Then you can test it out in poser.

I'm actually working on a character .duf/CR2 custom figure - so do I need to freeze ERC when saving as? I seem to lock up the app when freezing ERC.

Better - here is a screen shot of my corrected bones for my custom V6 CR2 - but there is still fracturing of the Scelera? I am only able to guess at positioning of end and center point as when I perform align to shape I go back to the error positioning that came standard with V1 I think you said. Any pointers suggestions - I am learning to use DS purely to get the custom figure set up - apologies for the apparent dumbness on my part.

davidcaputokeene

I have successfully (I think) set up a custom sbdx2 figure asset in DS and exported it to Poser 2014 as CR2 but however I set up the eye bones in either DS or Poser I end up getting polys that 'cling'to the eyeball - see below. Is there literature or tutorials on how to correct the poser CR2 export faulty transfer (or is the cause some other issue?)? How do I ensure that the new bone settings are correct and centered - all I've been doing to date is 'eyeballing' apparent centering positions ? Is there instruction in Daz or Poser on how to do this exactly?

Richard Haseltine

What are you trying to achieve that can't be done with the DSON Importer?

davidcaputokeene

I'm still trying to get a CR2 that is fully subdivided to one or maybe 2 times. How do I achieve this with the DSON importer? Maybe I'm missing something - which is highly likely, but if I open an exported Cr2 I get these rigging problems. What do you suggest please?

Richard Haseltine

The figure imported with the DSON importer should be subdivided two times, and can be subdivided more at render time. Or are you wanting a divided base mesh, rather than a cage with SubD applied? I'm sorry, but if that's the case I can't recall why - if you were carrying on from a previous thread it might be better to merge the two.

davidcaputokeene

Richard Haseltine said:

The figure imported with the DSON importer should be subdivided two times, and can be subdivided more at render time. Or are you wanting a divided base mesh, rather than a cage with SubD applied? I'm sorry, but if that's the case I can't recall why - if you were carrying on from a previous thread it might be better to merge the two.

I might be getting the workflow thing wrong because I know P2014 and Blacksmith 3D pretty well - DS I only started using to gain access to V6 and subd. Maybe explaining what I want to be able to do is the way forward. I want to be able to get a figure in high poly subd - (it would be great if I could use the subd mask capabilities to take advantage of the built in deltas, and use Blacksmith (or something similar - maybe Zbrush? - to do high detail modeling of say the facial structure and apply hi res textures. If it means doing it all in DS or Poser that's fine - if Blacksmiths or something similar are best for transfer to and from for modeling, sculpting then I'll use that. I really want to get past spending all this time on the technicalities of rigging auto transfer etc. and just get on with the artistic (at least that's what I consider it to be) of things. Any body's experience thoughts on the workflow is gratefully accepted.

Richard yes I too am getting confused and trying to work through this as a neophyte DS user. here is the other thread which sort of went dead: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/49904/

Hope this helps in getting your advice. Thanks for your conscientious efforts and helpfulness. If there is a 3D heaven you will surely earn your way there.

Richard Haseltine

OK, I've merged the threads.

If you want to create a morph using a higher density than the base then yes, you would need to export as a CR2 and point it to the HD mesh - the tool for importing HD morphs for the base mesh is available only to DAZ PAs. However, that is going to be a bit of a pain - not only do you risk having rigging issues, as you've found, but you also will lose compatibility with any new morphs for the base mesh that you add (without reexporting the CR2 and either copy/pasting them to your modified version or loading your HD morph). It may be simpler to make your morphs on the base resolution and then use displacement for the fine detail - if you are wanting to be able to use different UV sets with the results you can use DS' Map Transfer tool to make modified versions of the maps. A twice sub-divided mesh would also be very large - sixteen times the base polygon count, so on the order of 300,000 polygons.

davidcaputokeene

Richard Haseltine said:

OK, I've merged the threads.

If you want to create a morph using a higher density than the base then yes, you would need to export as a CR2 and point it to the HD mesh - the tool for importing HD morphs for the base mesh is available only to DAZ PAs. However, that is going to be a bit of a pain - not only do you risk having rigging issues, as you've found, but you also will lose compatibility with any new morphs for the base mesh that you add (without reexporting the CR2 and either copy/pasting them to your modified version or loading your HD morph). It may be simpler to make your morphs on the base resolution and then use displacement for the fine detail - if you are wanting to be able to use different UV sets with the results you can use DS' Map Transfer tool to make modified versions of the maps. A twice sub-divided mesh would also be very large - sixteen times the base polygon count, so on the order of 300,000 polygons.

I have been unable to access any of this during a whole week of family who occupied my time and access.
I will work with the 300K polys etc. and want to get the G2V6 .cr2 with expanded eye size rigged correctly. So far all I seem to do is be able to try and test the bone centering by what seems to be the center point of the eyeball and the edge point what appears to be the edge point in DS and then export the cr2. Its getting better - with less polygon fracturing around the lids but I can't seem to get it right. Is there a way of using a template and automatic centering tools to get the eye bones right in DS. Or do I have to go into Poser setup and change the bones again? I still wonder if there is some unattached distortion from the tear surround? Anything anyone can point me to to get rigging for eyes correct?

davidcaputokeene

dave43 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

OK, I've merged the threads.

If you want to create a morph using a higher density than the base then yes, you would need to export as a CR2 and point it to the HD mesh - the tool for importing HD morphs for the base mesh is available only to DAZ PAs. However, that is going to be a bit of a pain - not only do you risk having rigging issues, as you've found, but you also will lose compatibility with any new morphs for the base mesh that you add (without reexporting the CR2 and either copy/pasting them to your modified version or loading your HD morph). It may be simpler to make your morphs on the base resolution and then use displacement for the fine detail - if you are wanting to be able to use different UV sets with the results you can use DS' Map Transfer tool to make modified versions of the maps. A twice sub-divided mesh would also be very large - sixteen times the base polygon count, so on the order of 300,000 polygons.

I have been unable to access any of this during a whole week of family who occupied my time and access.
I will work with the 300K polys etc. and want to get the G2V6 .cr2 with expanded eye size rigged correctly. So far all I seem to do is be able to try and test the bone centering by what seems to be the center point of the eyeball and the edge point what appears to be the edge point in DS and then export the cr2. Its getting better - with less polygon fracturing around the lids but I can't seem to get it right. Is there a way of using a template and automatic centering tools to get the eye bones right in DS. Or do I have to go into Poser setup and change the bones again? I still wonder if there is some unattached distortion from the tear surround? Anything anyone can point me to to get rigging for eyes correct?

Here is a face camera screenshot with point at camera (face) and the polygon shattering/sharding appears better - hardly apparent at low pan/dolly movement - but there seems to be vertex attachment the eyeball geometry. I hope this will give someone an idea on what the cause is?