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Partial geometry shell

SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
edited December 1969 in New Users

How can I make a geometry shell from only part of a figure?

I have tried selecting only certain bones, or certain material zones, but it always creates a geometry shell of the entire figure.

How can I prepare a geometry shell of part of a figure?

Comments

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,355
    edited December 1969

    I believe it makes the full geometry shell only. You can just use it for the portion you need to affect.

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    Cris Palomino said:
    I believe it makes the full geometry shell only. You can just use it for the portion you need to affect.

    I am not sure I know what you mean by the second part. How can I use it for just the portion I need to affect, if it's made a shell of the whole figure?

  • MN-150374MN-150374 Posts: 923
    edited December 1969

    Select the Geometry Shell in the Scene Tab, go to Parameters Tab, there is an entry Shell.

    Each surface has its own ON/OFF-Switch.

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,355
    edited December 1969

    Here are some images to help:

    http://prntscr.com/5gno04

    http://prntscr.com/5gno2v

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    MN-150374 said:
    Select the Geometry Shell in the Scene Tab, go to Parameters Tab, there is an entry Shell.

    Each surface has its own ON/OFF-Switch.

    thankis for that.

    Ok next question, why does the geo shell disappear when I delete the figure on which it's based? I have unparented it.

    I just want the shell, not the figure

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,355
    edited December 1969

    What exactly are you trying to do?

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 962
    edited December 1969

    Cris Palomino said:
    What exactly are you trying to do?

    It's ok, I have figured it out thanks.

    If you hide the figure, you can just export the geo shell as an obj and then re-import it into a new scene. Voila!

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,785
    edited December 1969

    The main point of a Geometry Shell or an instance is to provide a light-weight copy, an exact copy for an instance or a copy with independent materials for a shell. Neither shells nor instances have their own mesh, so they can't exists without the original.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,785
    edited December 1969

    As an additional note, you don't have to go through the export as OBJ/import, with the need to reapply materials - especially if this is something you do often. Rob has posted a script that will do the job, for a figure and any items fitted or parented to it, in the scripting samples (you can download it and run it as is, not need for scripting knowledge): http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/nodes/convert_figure_to_props/start

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,462
    edited January 2015

    edited/solved- save as wearable(s) saves the mesh offset setting.

    Post edited by Marshian on
  • bbaluchonbbaluchon Posts: 34
    edited May 2018

    Sorry for the necro-topic, but I'm thinking about geo shells to alter some parts of my figures materials and meshes.

     

    I haven't yet abandoned my goal to create realistic scars, beauty spots and moles without exploding the polycount with SubD, so here are some questions :

    1. Does geo shell double the polycount of the base figure, render-wise, or does it only act as a support for different materials ?

    2. You said the shell doesn't have a mesh, but apparently, it can be Subdivided independently from the base figure ; how much does it affect the memory usage and rendering time ?

    3. Is it possible to partially hide polys/surfaces of the shell with geometry editor (by poly selection), or do I have to use opacity mapping ? Is 100% opacity saving processing power, or surfaces still are calculated for render ? Obviously if the shell doesnt affect the polycount, masking should not be needed, but just to be sure...

    4. If I want to create displacement mapping instead of bump for the shell, are the underlying polys (from the original mesh) automatically hide in creases and folds created by negative displacement, like a geo-grafted surface ?

     

    Thanks in advance for your help !

    Post edited by bbaluchon on
  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,462

    The Only one I can comment on is #3 but it's based on designated surfaces. In parameters tab you can hide/turn off. If the areas are independent of surface zones I think you'd have to use opacity masks (not sure though), which Iray has no problem with. The flowers in this render (below) were done with a geoshell and opacity masks, I didn't notice any lag time or trouble with them.

    From this product: amazeing-journey-around-the-world

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    This thread happens to be exactly what I am trying to do and, unfortunately, the suggested solutions here are not working for me. I tried the script suggested by Richard and ended up with a full figure with no materials - exactly the opposite of what I want. I want to have the geo-shell retain the materials it has when attached to a figure but I want to delete the figure itself and be left with the grafted add-on complete with textures but wthout the host body.

    Perhaps it is the fact that information is left out when posting these solutions. Information such as what to export (the host, the graft, the shell, or what combination?). Or what to select when running that script? The wearable suggestion didn't work either but, again, I'm probably doing something wrong.

    One last point - I don't want to end up with an unrigged/un-morphable static prop. I want the geograft to function as it would when attached, with all the adjustments and movements, etc. - just without the host body.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,487
    marble said:

    Perhaps it is the fact that information is left out when posting these solutions.

    Ironically, the way you framed your post is quite confusing.  i dont really understand what youre trying to do?

    marble said:

    I don't want to end up with an unrigged/un-morphable static prop.

    wasnt the script Richard posted to convert figures to static props?  So not sure why you used it.

    I want the geograft to function as it would when attached, with all the adjustments and movements, etc. - just without the host body.

    Define geograft.  This thread is about geoshells?

    You can have a geoshell without a figure by hiding the underlying figure (as posted earlier in this thread)

    I want to have the geo-shell retain the materials it has when attached to a figure but I want to delete the figure itself and be left with the grafted add-on complete with textures but wthout the host body.

    you could just copy and paste the surfaces from the figure surfaces to the geoshell (right click copy+paste).  could be tedious if you have to do this a lot.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited September 2020

    Sorry - I tried to be as clear as possible (and in my head, I was).

    The geograft I am using has materials applied to a geoshell (I assume this is how they all work). 

    I should have noticed from the name of the script that it converts to props - Doh!

    When I hide the host figure the material on the geoshell disappears. It is just an untexture object. I have tried copying the surfaces and even creating a MAT preset from those surfaces and applying it to the geoshell - just nothing has worked for me.

    Maybe I should ask the GeoGraft creator (Meipe) but answers on that forum can take weeks.

    Post edited by marble on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,487
    edited September 2020
    marble said:

    Sorry - I tried to be as clear as possible (and in my head, I was).

    The geograft I am using has materials applied to a geoshell (I assume this is how they all work). 

    I should have noticed from the name of the script that it converts to props - Doh!

    When I hide the host figure the material on the geoshell disappears. It is just an untexture object. I have tried copying the surfaces and even creating a MAT preset from those surfaces and applying it to the geoshell - just nothing has worked for me.

    A geograft is 'grafted' onto a figure, replacing some of the figure's geometry with a new mesh - usually some appendage like tails, anatomical elements, horns etc.

    The geoshell is a layer that is a 'shell' around the figure or prop etc.

    These are two separate things.  A geograft can have a geoshell - any mesh can have a geoshell added to it - but this isnt a given.

    Geoshells should have their own texturers, independent to the underling shell node.  So if you hide the shell node figure, the geoshell materials should not disappear, like you have described.

    Anyway, if you are having trouble copy/pasting textures from shell node to shell, it might be because they have different shader. i think you can only copy/paste surfaces if they have the same shader.  The default shader for geoshell is a 3DL shader i believe so you may have to change the shader to iray uber base or w/e before you can paste the surfaces to it.

    edit: if these are meipe anatomical elements, i believe they would probably be using a different UV set on the geoshell that blends across torso where the geograft intersects with the torso.  i think there are tutorials included with their products on how to texture the geograft/geoshell. And i think you will be needing both the geograft and geoshell to be present for the effect to occur as intended.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    lilweep said:
    marble said:

    Sorry - I tried to be as clear as possible (and in my head, I was).

    The geograft I am using has materials applied to a geoshell (I assume this is how they all work). 

    I should have noticed from the name of the script that it converts to props - Doh!

    When I hide the host figure the material on the geoshell disappears. It is just an untexture object. I have tried copying the surfaces and even creating a MAT preset from those surfaces and applying it to the geoshell - just nothing has worked for me.

    A geograft is 'grafted' onto a figure, replacing some of the figure's geometry with a new mesh - usually some appendage like tails, anatomical elements, horns etc.

    The geoshell is a layer that is a 'shell' around the figure or prop etc.

    These are two separate things.  A geograft can have a geoshell - any mesh can have a geoshell added to it - but this isnt a given.

    If you click on the geoshell, in parameters it will tell you what the geoshell has as its 'Shell Node'. This is what it is creating a layer around.  the geoshell offset will define whether it is a shell above or below the node.

    Geoshells should have their own texturers, independent to the underling shell node.  So if you hide the shell node figure, the geoshell materials should not disappear, like you have described. Some PAs will use a geoshell as a way to add extra texturing, like dirt, or hair, or normals.  So often the textures assigned to the geoshell wont be the main textures - those should be on the shell node itself.  And therefore you probably wont want to hide the shell node/underlying figure! 

    Anyway, if you are having trouble copy/pasting textures from shell node to shell, it might be because they have different shader. i think you can only copy/paste surfaces if they have the same shader.  The default shader for geoshell is a 3DL shader (i think) so you have to change the shader to iray uber base or w/e before you can paste the surfaces to it.

    edit: if these are meipe anatomical elements, i believe they would probably be using a texture that blends across torso and legs, which would be on the geoshell. Presumably they have instructions on how to texture the geoshell with the product.

    Yes, I understand most of that and did before I posted. I do know the difference between a geoshell and a geograft and I cannot see why you would think otherwise from what I have explained. 

    Yes, the texture does blend and it is on the geoshell. I have no problem texturing the product when it is being used normally but this is not a normal scenario. I merely want to use the product in a scene without the host but I want it to be textured as though the host were visible/present. I'm not sure how else I can describe the problem.

    So here's how it works in a scene in the order specified by Meipe:

    1. Attach the graft product.

    2. Run a MAT copy script.

    3. Load the GeoShell.

    4. Adjust the surfaces on the shell to better match the tone of the original skin tone.

    So the graft has copies of the materials from the host Genesis 3 figure. The shell has its own textures which are IRay materials and can be adjusted to suit the skin tone of the figure. If I make the shell invisible while still on the figure, the underlying geograft is a plain colour but is textureless. The plain colour blends with the Genesis figure (obviously I can't show images here). If I make the shell visible, all the details and colours, etc., are visible. If I now unparent the geograft, the textures remain as they were when parented but, if I now delete the Genesis 3 figure, the shell texture is gone.

    BUT!

    I've just made a surprising discovery. I have been following the above procedure while writing this post and I noticed that this time, the shell only partly disappeared when I hid the host Genesis. WHat seems to have happened is that the shell dimensions were slightly reduced so that it was smaller than the GeoGraft thus hiding under the surface of the geograft. If I adjusted the GeoShell scale to 102% it reappered. Also, I could hide the graft and the textured shell remained. Sadly, I was not able to delete the Genesis figure entirely because that took the shell materials with it.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited September 2020

    By the way, the only reason I am attempting this is because I was trying a camera position in which the Genesis figure was blocking the view of the graft. Also, the fact that there are some opacity settings on another item in that view meant that the OpenGL viewport was affected and that item became invisible (thus I couldn't work on it) - when viewed from behind the hidden G3 figure. Much like the way transmapped hair becomes invisble in the viewport there is something like a glass window in front of it.

    Post edited by marble on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,487
    edited September 2020
    marble said:
    lilweep said:
    marble said:

    Sorry - I tried to be as clear as possible (and in my head, I was).

    The geograft I am using has materials applied to a geoshell (I assume this is how they all work). 

    I should have noticed from the name of the script that it converts to props - Doh!

    When I hide the host figure the material on the geoshell disappears. It is just an untexture object. I have tried copying the surfaces and even creating a MAT preset from those surfaces and applying it to the geoshell - just nothing has worked for me.

    A geograft is 'grafted' onto a figure, replacing some of the figure's geometry with a new mesh - usually some appendage like tails, anatomical elements, horns etc.

    The geoshell is a layer that is a 'shell' around the figure or prop etc.

    These are two separate things.  A geograft can have a geoshell - any mesh can have a geoshell added to it - but this isnt a given.

    If you click on the geoshell, in parameters it will tell you what the geoshell has as its 'Shell Node'. This is what it is creating a layer around.  the geoshell offset will define whether it is a shell above or below the node.

    Geoshells should have their own texturers, independent to the underling shell node.  So if you hide the shell node figure, the geoshell materials should not disappear, like you have described. Some PAs will use a geoshell as a way to add extra texturing, like dirt, or hair, or normals.  So often the textures assigned to the geoshell wont be the main textures - those should be on the shell node itself.  And therefore you probably wont want to hide the shell node/underlying figure! 

    Anyway, if you are having trouble copy/pasting textures from shell node to shell, it might be because they have different shader. i think you can only copy/paste surfaces if they have the same shader.  The default shader for geoshell is a 3DL shader (i think) so you have to change the shader to iray uber base or w/e before you can paste the surfaces to it.

    edit: if these are meipe anatomical elements, i believe they would probably be using a texture that blends across torso and legs, which would be on the geoshell. Presumably they have instructions on how to texture the geoshell with the product.

    I merely want to use the product in a scene without the host but I want it to be textured as though the host were visible/present. I'm not sure how else I can describe the problem.

    So the graft has copies of the materials from the host Genesis 3 figure. The shell has its own textures which are IRay materials and can be adjusted to suit the skin tone of the figure. If I make the shell invisible while still on the figure, the underlying geograft is a plain colour but is textureless. The plain colour blends with the Genesis figure (obviously I can't show images here). If I make the shell visible, all the details and colours, etc., are visible. If I now unparent the geograft, the textures remain as they were when parented but, if I now delete the Genesis 3 figure, the shell texture is gone.

    a geoshell cant exist without a shell node. Hide - dont delete.

    the purpose of the geoshell in meipe anatomical elements is to blend the intersection of the graft and torso.  It has its own UV set for this purpose. If you are hiding the figure anyway, there's no point retaining the geoshell to blend across the torso/geograft intersection...

    edit:oh i actually see the purpose for geoshell is used in these products as an additional texturing layer. To retain the geoshell for texturing you can add a new geoshell just to the geograft and delete the other figure and geoshell (after copying over the textures). Difficult to know why this is important for you in terms of the application and end use.  Alternatively, instead of keeping the geoshell for the added texture layer, you could just use a multilayer shader so you are only dealing with one mesh rather than mesh+geoshell.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    lilweep said:
    marble said:
    lilweep said:
    marble said:

    Sorry - I tried to be as clear as possible (and in my head, I was).

    The geograft I am using has materials applied to a geoshell (I assume this is how they all work). 

    I should have noticed from the name of the script that it converts to props - Doh!

    When I hide the host figure the material on the geoshell disappears. It is just an untexture object. I have tried copying the surfaces and even creating a MAT preset from those surfaces and applying it to the geoshell - just nothing has worked for me.

    A geograft is 'grafted' onto a figure, replacing some of the figure's geometry with a new mesh - usually some appendage like tails, anatomical elements, horns etc.

    The geoshell is a layer that is a 'shell' around the figure or prop etc.

    These are two separate things.  A geograft can have a geoshell - any mesh can have a geoshell added to it - but this isnt a given.

    If you click on the geoshell, in parameters it will tell you what the geoshell has as its 'Shell Node'. This is what it is creating a layer around.  the geoshell offset will define whether it is a shell above or below the node.

    Geoshells should have their own texturers, independent to the underling shell node.  So if you hide the shell node figure, the geoshell materials should not disappear, like you have described. Some PAs will use a geoshell as a way to add extra texturing, like dirt, or hair, or normals.  So often the textures assigned to the geoshell wont be the main textures - those should be on the shell node itself.  And therefore you probably wont want to hide the shell node/underlying figure! 

    Anyway, if you are having trouble copy/pasting textures from shell node to shell, it might be because they have different shader. i think you can only copy/paste surfaces if they have the same shader.  The default shader for geoshell is a 3DL shader (i think) so you have to change the shader to iray uber base or w/e before you can paste the surfaces to it.

    edit: if these are meipe anatomical elements, i believe they would probably be using a texture that blends across torso and legs, which would be on the geoshell. Presumably they have instructions on how to texture the geoshell with the product.

    I merely want to use the product in a scene without the host but I want it to be textured as though the host were visible/present. I'm not sure how else I can describe the problem.

    So the graft has copies of the materials from the host Genesis 3 figure. The shell has its own textures which are IRay materials and can be adjusted to suit the skin tone of the figure. If I make the shell invisible while still on the figure, the underlying geograft is a plain colour but is textureless. The plain colour blends with the Genesis figure (obviously I can't show images here). If I make the shell visible, all the details and colours, etc., are visible. If I now unparent the geograft, the textures remain as they were when parented but, if I now delete the Genesis 3 figure, the shell texture is gone.

    a geoshell cant exist without a shell node. Hide - dont delete.

    the purpose of the geoshell in meipe anatomical elements is to blend the intersection of the graft and torso.  It has its own UV set for this purpose.

    If you are hiding the figure anyway, there's no point retaining the geoshell to blend across the torso/geograft intersection...

    Thanks for your input but I think that you are missing the point entirely. I'm sorry that I can't explain it better and the fact that I can't use pictures makes it that much more difficult. I have left a post on the other forum for Meipe but I'm thinking that I'm trying to do the impossible. As you say, the shell can't exist without the whole figure and that was the original subject of this thread. I actually searched on the exact phrase used for the subject title of the thread.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    I did get a reply on the other forum - and it is possible. Basically it involves unparenting the graft, creating another geoshell and copying the surfaces from the original shell to the new one. Then it is possible to delete both the host figure (G3M) and the original shell. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited September 2020
    lilweep said:
    marble said:
    lilweep said:
    marble said:

    Sorry - I tried to be as clear as possible (and in my head, I was).

    The geograft I am using has materials applied to a geoshell (I assume this is how they all work). 

    I should have noticed from the name of the script that it converts to props - Doh!

    When I hide the host figure the material on the geoshell disappears. It is just an untexture object. I have tried copying the surfaces and even creating a MAT preset from those surfaces and applying it to the geoshell - just nothing has worked for me.

    A geograft is 'grafted' onto a figure, replacing some of the figure's geometry with a new mesh - usually some appendage like tails, anatomical elements, horns etc.

    The geoshell is a layer that is a 'shell' around the figure or prop etc.

    These are two separate things.  A geograft can have a geoshell - any mesh can have a geoshell added to it - but this isnt a given.

    If you click on the geoshell, in parameters it will tell you what the geoshell has as its 'Shell Node'. This is what it is creating a layer around.  the geoshell offset will define whether it is a shell above or below the node.

    Geoshells should have their own texturers, independent to the underling shell node.  So if you hide the shell node figure, the geoshell materials should not disappear, like you have described. Some PAs will use a geoshell as a way to add extra texturing, like dirt, or hair, or normals.  So often the textures assigned to the geoshell wont be the main textures - those should be on the shell node itself.  And therefore you probably wont want to hide the shell node/underlying figure! 

    Anyway, if you are having trouble copy/pasting textures from shell node to shell, it might be because they have different shader. i think you can only copy/paste surfaces if they have the same shader.  The default shader for geoshell is a 3DL shader (i think) so you have to change the shader to iray uber base or w/e before you can paste the surfaces to it.

    edit: if these are meipe anatomical elements, i believe they would probably be using a texture that blends across torso and legs, which would be on the geoshell. Presumably they have instructions on how to texture the geoshell with the product.

    I merely want to use the product in a scene without the host but I want it to be textured as though the host were visible/present. I'm not sure how else I can describe the problem.

    So the graft has copies of the materials from the host Genesis 3 figure. The shell has its own textures which are IRay materials and can be adjusted to suit the skin tone of the figure. If I make the shell invisible while still on the figure, the underlying geograft is a plain colour but is textureless. The plain colour blends with the Genesis figure (obviously I can't show images here). If I make the shell visible, all the details and colours, etc., are visible. If I now unparent the geograft, the textures remain as they were when parented but, if I now delete the Genesis 3 figure, the shell texture is gone.

    a geoshell cant exist without a shell node. Hide - dont delete.

    the purpose of the geoshell in meipe anatomical elements is to blend the intersection of the graft and torso.  It has its own UV set for this purpose. If you are hiding the figure anyway, there's no point retaining the geoshell to blend across the torso/geograft intersection...

    edit:oh i actually see the purpose for geoshell is used in these products as an additional texturing layer. To retain the geoshell for texturing you can add a new geoshell just to the geograft and delete the other figure and geoshell (after copying over the textures). Difficult to know why this is important for you in terms of the application and end use.  Alternatively, instead of keeping the geoshell for the added texture layer, you could just use a multilayer shader so you are only dealing with one mesh rather than mesh+geoshell.

    I just noticed your edit here ... is it you (under a different name) who replied on the other forum? If so, my thanks again. Sorry but I don't know what a multi-layer shader is. Sounds interesting though.

    As for the application - I think I covered that above but you might have missed it between replies.

    Post edited by marble on
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