Thumb segment 3 bends sideways?!

RenderPretender

Has anyone ever encountered a situation in which the third segment of the thumb (tip/nail segment) bends sideways, such as while in a fist, instead of properly? I have noticed this across several generations of figures on occasion, but have never sorted out why it occurs, or how to correct it.

Anybody? Thank you!

cridgit

Redacted

DKrieger

I found that with the G3 male and really stopped using him for a lot of things because of it.  (I kind of skipped the G3 era, so it wasn't a big loss, I was well into G8 when I made this discovery).

But now I am curious why the OP is encountering this on mulitple figures... I thought it was a just a G3 male design quirk and now wondering if this can be solved.

RenderPretender

DKrieger said:

I found that with the G3 male and really stopped using him for a lot of things because of it.  (I kind of skipped the G3 era, so it wasn't a big loss, I was well into G8 when I made this discovery).

But now I am curious why the OP is encountering this on mulitple figures... I thought it was a just a G3 male design quirk and now wondering if this can be solved.

 Yes, I have encountered this across Genesis generations, but this instance is with a G8M that has the trangender and cross-figure morphs applied. That seems to be unrelated, however.

Bejaymac

If this is happening with just the base figure then either it's gotten broken, or there is something active when it shouldn't be and is screwing with the rigging.

If this is only happening when you have one or more morphs applied, then the rigging adjustments in one of the morphs is badly done.

Unusual for it to be just one bone though, usually if the wrong settings have been used with "adjust rigging to shape", then what happens is every finger bone get screwed over, try to make a fist and the fingers bend backwards.

cridgit

Redacted

RenderPretender

Bejaymac said:

If this is happening with just the base figure then either it's gotten broken, or there is something active when it shouldn't be and is screwing with the rigging.

If this is only happening when you have one or more morphs applied, then the rigging adjustments in one of the morphs is badly done.

Unusual for it to be just one bone though, usually if the wrong settings have been used with "adjust rigging to shape", then what happens is every finger bone get screwed over, try to make a fist and the fingers bend backwards.

It's just that one bone. And I have encountered it on other platforms without having used "adjust rigging to shape". Also, another G8F-to-G8M character created with the same transfer and the same steps doesn't exhibit the same issue. It's mystifying.

Bejaymac

I didn't mean you had used it, but rather who ever made the morphs did.

DS4 uses animated joint centers, this allows the bones to be adjusted to better match the shape of a morph, without that the new shape would bend "poorly".

From the sounds of things one or more of the morphs you are using has changed the orientation of that bone, more specifically the X rotation.

Finding the "bad" morph is one thing, fixing it is something else.

RenderPretender

Bejaymac said:

I didn't mean you had used it, but rather who ever made the morphs did.

DS4 uses animated joint centers, this allows the bones to be adjusted to better match the shape of a morph, without that the new shape would bend "poorly".

From the sounds of things one or more of the morphs you are using has changed the orientation of that bone, more specifically the X rotation.

Finding the "bad" morph is one thing, fixing it is something else.

Fortunately, it's minor and seemingly isolated.

johnsonmike2008_89885ec417

It is not seemingly isolated for me... this bug occurs in far too many of the G8 figures which I use. I don't know why it occurs but I have figured out a pain-in-the-ass workaround...

In the parameters tab do Preferences > Show Hidden Properties.

You will see that "Bend" is actually Y Rotate (green).

Apply the sort of "Bend" that you want... then also tweak the hidden Z Rotate (blue) and X Rotate (red) sliders to compensate for the sideways bending. For example... in a figure I am posing right now I dial "Bend" to -40, then also set Z Rotate 40 and X Rotate 15 and it looks natural enough.

johnsonmike2008_89885ec417

The bug annoys me so much I took a further look and found a better, more permanent solution!

I loaded a vanilla G8 female, opened the Joint Editor tool, and looked at the Thumb 3 bones (which bend correctly)...

Right Thumb 3

X Rotation  -27.96
Y Rotation  43.33
Z Rotation  64.33

Left Thumb 3
X Rotation  -27.96
Y Rotation  -43.33
Z Rotation  -64.33

I then looked at my character which has bad sideways bending Thumb 3, and it has these values...

Right Thumb 3

X Rotation  28.09
Y Rotation  43.33
Z Rotation  64.43

Left Thumb 3
X Rotation  28.09
Y Rotation  -43.33
Z Rotation  -64.43

Notice that the polarity of the X Rotation is wrong in my character (positive, instead of the negative value of vanilla G8).

In the Joint Editor I corrected the polarity by setting X Rotation to -28.09. Thumb 3 now bends correctly!

johnsonmike2008_89885ec417

ps...

If you take a look at your character in Joint Editor you will probably find, as I did with mine, that Thumb 2 and Thumb 1 also have the X Rotation with a positive value instead of the negative value found in vanilla G8, and that these two bones also "bend" and "up-down" (in the case of Thumb 1) unnaturally. Correct both of these bones (in left and right hands) by setting the X Rotation to negative. Once you have corrected the rotation the sliders under Left/Right Hand such as "Left Hand Fist" and "Left Thumb Bend" will also now work correctly.