Nvidia RTX GPU's available and prices dropping
Joe2018
Posts: 262
In Germany there are currently more and more RTX GPU available and it looks like the prices are dropping fast. At the moment there is a Geforce RTX 3060 with 12 GB for 599 Euro (incl. VAT) at www.notebooksbilliger.de
Also RTX 3070 and up are available and at prices that I have not seen since months.
Same at other retailers in Germany.
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Scan has a few in the UK, mainly in bundles rather than stand-alone so hard to compare prices.
...apparently not yet here in the States yet eBay has a few 3090 Founders Edition ones for around 2,000 USD, but still see a numbe foing for over 1,000 USD above MSRP, some for as much as 1,500 - 1,700 USD. higher.
I have noticed the same here in Finland, 3090, 3080Ti, 3070Ti are available in numbers, the 12GB 3060 may not be available every day, but at least a couple of days each week and the trend has been improving all June with the prices also going down.
China outright banned crypto-currencies, so the miners are dumping the mined out cards and not buying new ones.
https://www.techspot.com/news/90267-miners-china-selling-off-their-graphics-cards-amid.html
of note from the story "...China accounts for up to 70% of the world's crypto supply, and with 700,000 graphics cards (around 25%) that shipped globally in the first quarter ending up in the hands of miners..."
Crypto miners ARE the reason we can't get GPUs for Iray.
I like this blurb from the above article... "There are caveats to go with those low prices: the cards are being sold in bulk and they'll likely have been running 24/7 at full throttle for a long time."... Ya think?
Naa... that's just a minor thing... like when my friend was going to buy a used NYC taxi cab as his first car... "What could possibly go wrong?... I'm sure it's just fine..."
Well, at least the GPUs probably don't smell like pee...
Probably.
That and the chip shortage. Though this is for sure good news.
I got a call from a friend yesterday: he got a 3060 12 GB under 500 Euro at a local dealer.
Media Markt had an ASUS 3060 OC (12GB) on the shelf for 529 Euro
I passed on it.
In Germany 3090s seem to be 2000eur though and this is the only card worth considering for me. True, 10GB vram us enough for gaming but I don't game so much, and I'm running out of 11GB regularly.
2000eur for a 3090 is cheap.
The cheapest I can find and buy at the moment, is 2750eur, but in may that was 3200eur
At the moment in Germany www.notebooksbilliger.de offers:
GigaByte Geforce RTX 3090 Gaming OC 24 GB - 1949 Euro (inkl. VAT, Product is available)
Asus Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB Phoenix V2 - 499 Euro (inkl. VAT, Product is available)
Ebuyer and Overclockers have some stock in the UK with around a £500 markup over the RRP. As Richard mentioned Scan only have them in bundles with a motherboard and CPU.
Steve.
But of course with Iray the 3090 is the crown. I hope you'll get your GPU soon!
Good, by next spring they'll be selling at the original MSRP and cheaper, unused & boxed.
I just picked up a an RTX3080TI. It was an experience akin to unwanted physical contact. I knew I was in trouble when the salesman said, "That's a pretty mouth you got there boy!"
No one told me the safe word. *shudders*
Now I can happily use the gluttonous memory pig called iRay, and I'm quite happy as long as I shut out those memories. :-)
Unless you're absolutely desperate for a graphics card, don't be too quick to your wallet to fork over more than about 10 or 15% over MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) for your card of choice. If we continue to buy graphic cards at 50, 100 and 200% over MSRP you'll be setting the stage for the next version of cards to be priced according to what the manufacturer thinks we're willing to pay. Hold off on your purchases a little longer and wait for prices to stabilize at near MSRP levels.
Watch this: (Yeah, yeah, I know this guy is uber annoying
but once you're past the corny introduction he usually has good tidbits of information.)
Prices dropping literally the moment crypto is forced to shut down in China basically proves crypto has been the problem all along. There was also a study by a market research group that estimates some 700,000 GPUs that were purchased in one quarter were used in dedicated mining machines. That is just for ONE quarter, people. Ampere has been out for 3 quarters now. So if that trend held during all 3 quarters you are looking at over 2 million GPUs that were used in these mining companies. Personally I believe the real statistic is much higher, but whatever.
Now, I don't know about you guys, but if 2 million GPUs hit the market right now, I think things might change. Hmmm. <.<
So yeah, that is where your stock went. I am sure it would have been difficult get GPUs without this crypto boom, with COVID and shortages going on. But crypto completely changed the field, and not only took GPUs out of the market, but crypto directly caused the price inflation to be much worse than it ever would have been. We have had shortages before, but those shortages did not inflate prices like we have seen the past year. Like I said before, crypto allows people to make money off their GPUs, and when money gets involved, everything changes. A product that largely targets gaming hobbies and entertainment now becomes a real money making device for crypto mining. Of course this is going to disrupt the market. Why would anybody think differently?
At any rate, this is FAR from over. The mining operations that China closed down are now looking at relocating to different countries. Some are looking at neighboring countries, some are even looking at Texas. Any place that offers cheap electricity and is friendlier to crypto is a prime spot for them. So this small lull will not last. Once those operations are back up and running in new locations there will be nothing to stop them, and the GPU market will get back to where it was during the peak rush. Some factors may help, Ether is supposed to change over to proof of stake, and some countries are cracking down on crypto. But both of these can be over come by the miners. While some countries are cracking down, others are opening up more, and even looking at making crypto a legal tender. Ether can be replaced by a different coin. This might seem difficult, and it actually is. Ether by itself is more valuable than the top 10 competing coins combined (except Bitcoin of course). However the mining operations have a lot of money and power right now, they can use their wealth to artificially prop up some other coin. Remember when a group of people boosted Gamestop's stock value to insane levels? It is trickier to do this with crypto, but the mining firms have billions of dollars to pull this type of thing off. You cannot count them out. These companies are not simply going to go home. They will fight back.
So yeah, I am feeling quite negative towards the whole situation. I would absolutely love to be wrong. I hope I am wrong. There are supposed experts predicting I am wrong. But take my words as a warning, because I feel like I am going to be more right than wrong.
You are right for the most part, all the current miners china mining operations will move and start back up in another country. However, a lot of the new 30 series cards coming out have a LHR (Low Hash Rate) GPU's. This is important because it throttles the GPU's hash rate when mining. It makes mining with those cards non profitable. All 3070ti and 3080ti's have this feature from day one and are not desirable by miners. You are now seeing this being implemented to new cards that are being produced in the last two months for the basic 3060, 3070, and 3080's. Evga is sending emails to people in que letting them know that they can switch que to a receive LHR models as of this month, or stay in que on the waiting list for an undetermined period of time for a non LHR model. The price for 3080's made before May are going for scalper prices and are way more than the new 3080TI on the market. There are poeple trading there new Ti GPU for other older non Ti variants. Currently there are people trying to hack the encrypted drivers for the LHR, however it is very hard and many doubt it will happen anytime soon. The 3060ti LHR has been beaten, but it was because Nvida accidently released the unencrypted drivers during an update. Because of this people are starting to find new available 30 series LHR cards at regular / lower retail prices.
Are we talking about prices for new or used RTX cards? Because I'm not buying a used miner's card from China or anywhere else.
Retail price will come down eventually.
I'd use caution buying from places like amazon and newegg.
If you see a 3rd party with a sudden large stockpile of cards it's probably one of these miners trying to dump their mined out cards.
Buy direct, and don't take the chance.
"One careful owner."
The LHR cards are still profitable...just not as profitable as before. They also primarily target Ether. They will detect a number of other cryptos, but there is always the possibility that a particular coin slips under Nvidia's detection. And in such a case, this would be the coin the miners decide to target as the next Ether.
Also, even Nvidia admits their limiter could get broken at some point. And don't forget, it was Nvidia themselves that slipped up and released a driver that magically unlocked the 3060's limiter. That doesn't instill a lot of confidence that they will be able to keep the new LHR cards locked down. Moreover these mining firms are truly wealthy. They can afford to do things to put things in their favor. They can afford to hire Nvidia engineers for themselves with knowledge of the hardware. They can build their own custom BIOS for all the hardware in question.
They can basically make their own rules. Again, some of these companies have a billion dollars to play with to make these kinds of things happen. They will do whatever it takes to make it happen.
Also, the 3090 will not have a LHR version. So the 3090 will still continue to be a popular mining card. The 3090 also happens to be a card that many of us would love to have thanks to its VRAM.
Additionally there are still millions of GPUs that were produced without any such limiter. We might not see that many mining cards actually get sold on eBay because it would be better for them to keep their stock while they move. The larger firms may be buying up cards from those that do shut down for good.
If Nvidia had started the Ampere generation with this limiter in place maybe things would have been different. But it is too late for that now.
...not so sure about Texas and cheap power. After the deep freeze there businesses and even individual rate payers were receiving bills in excess of four and five digits. With how crazy the weather has become, the fact they never weatherised their grid, and their system not being connected to the rest of the nation, it could happen again there.
Personally I would love it if crypto to just dried up and blew away.
Yeah at Newegg I always check where an item ships from before placing an order. If it is China, it's a no go not just because of the shipping time, but there have also been some customers who reported received knockoffs that were branded as being from a reputable manufacturer.
eBay is a very distant last resort for me.
Waiting list? How do I get on a waiting list? I did EVGA's email notification but never got anything and never saw anything about a waiting list. The specific card I want is the EVGA 3090 FTW Ultra.
It is possible to switch providers in Texas, and if they can predict bad weather coming they can switch to a different provider that will not have the crazy price swings. These providers cost a little more under normal conditions, which is why people use the riskier suppliers in the first place.
Also, because mining isn't a life or death issue, if they can't switch suppliers ahead of time they can simply power down for the short period. Odds are they would need to anyway if the situation was as dire as it was during that event, in order to help stabilize the grid.
Besides, with their wealth and the influence that comes with such wealth I bet you money that even in the worst case they could wiggle out of paying elevated power fees from a storm. These guys can also fund lobbyists to get laws passed to protect them from these events. Frankly, this is not even a concern for them.
They can also build out their own sources of power so they don't need to rely on the grid too much. Some operations do have their own power plants. In this situation, they could even feed their power into the grid during such an emergency and then be seen as heroes.
I can see the headlines now, "Crypto Saves Texans!" Even though they could only power a very small area. But this would sway public opinion in their favor, and we would never be able to buy a GPU again.
I should have been an evil corporate boss. <.<
It also depends on who offers the best package to entice the mining firms to move in. I can see some places offering them tax breaks and other things because they may bring some jobs into an area. You know how that goes, companies get sweetheart deals to locate to certain places. These deals might also include the utility protection, too.
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