Avoid shaders to use the UV map?
Androol
Posts: 85
In DS Is it possible to use another projection than the UVmap with shaders?
The point bein not having trouble with the seams.
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You can get the coordinates in space and use those to determine colour - by default they will be in object space, but you can use the transform brick to change them into other coordinates. The Shades of Life sets use a simple planar projection by default.
To be honest all I anderstanded is that its possible but not how.
Its probably because I didnt explain enougt what I m trying to do. I m not doing a new shader but just to use one I brought. I intend to try on making shaders on DS as its what I like the most in Poser but the interface affraid me a little in DS still.
If its possible to customise a buyed shader in the nod (/ brick) room of DS I didnt find how as when I try to go there it seams like it always want me to start from scratch. So I was trying to change the coordinate in the surface pannel but without succes.
It depends on whether it is a brick-based shader or a compiled RSL shader. Things like the pw and uber shaders are compiled, from raw code, not made with bricks and as a result they can't be edited. You could, in principle, edit the AoA SSS sahder (though not distribute the results of your customisation to others).
Ok thx.
So basicaly if I want my shaders looking like in the promo image below I have to export my char in an external modeler remove the UV and importing back right?
http://www.daz3d.com/dg-shader-essentials-2
Because I have seams everywere when I try to use it in DS.
Removing the UV won't actually help you achieve this effect. As mentioned above, things like this are often done using world coordinates, which basically takes the world space as its 'UV map' so it doesn't even use the existing ones anyway. The great thing about this is that by using the same shader on intersecting objects, you can make them seem like one single object, as the materials would blend seamlessly from one figure to the next.
It's a reasonably advanced use of the shader mixer though, so don't expect to figure it out in one go. Experimentation is the key to success in all things.
I m missing somthing I guess. If it dont use the uv map, why did I get the seams when I try to use the shaders that I taked as an exemple and there is no seams mark in the promo picture?
Edit:
If its not the UV its the diferent material zone so I have to make it one material zone for the full body?
I m not realy in a hurry to use theses shaders but yesterday after finishing a props in blender I imported it in DS and thinked, well lets try these shaders. I get some seams trouble so I tryed the shader on a g2f and was like why dont they look like in the promo image??? I asumed it was because of the texture projection but aparently it isent. Still I'm curiouse to understand how to use them.
Seams are very hard to avoid - you need to have the same scaling on any pattern, of course, and start from the same position in space (object space or world space) or the adjacent material zones won't match up - but in many cases, for many patterns, there's no way to avoid some kind of oddity - a seam, or an odd breaking of the repeat of the pattern. That's why UV Mapping is complex enough to merit its own dedicated applications.
The only thing that does not give problem with seams is a cube :lol:; anything else has seams which means that either...
1 - you accept them as a fact of life...
2 - use them to your advantage (seams on clothing meshes in the same places where the actual piece of clothing is cut)...
3 - forget about painting on the UV layout, get in to 2015 and paint directly on the mesh.
@Androol: when you don't use mesh UV maps you are using some kind of generate UV coordinates which map the bounding box containing the mesh.
So basicaly what you are both saying is that doing what the promo image of the product I taked as exemple show is impossible?
Well the creator of the produc certainly prouve you wrong. If you look at the main promo image ( and the last who is basicly the same without blur) in the link I posted previously, you wont see any seams on his texture on the 2 character he used it on.
When I try to do the same with these shaders on g2 characters (I didnt try any other as I dont use them generaly) it dont work like that and its full of seam lines.
I miss somthing but I m not sure what.
I ll probably try to tweek the coordination and if it didnt work make the entire figure one material but I doubt the later is the way the maker of the product achieved it since the eyes arent on the same mesh.
Edit: Herald of fire seams to think its doable and know how to but I have no clue of the step to achieve it.
Just thinking out loud about those promos///do you think they used the statue figures that use one continuous uvmap
something like this http://www.daz3d.com/sculptural-genesis-ultra-fun-kit or this http://www.daz3d.com/generation-4-statues
The statue mapping uses a trick - it's basically two back-to-back planar projections, relaxed to avoid stretching on the sides. But if you put a regular pattern, such as dots or a grid, on your will see it looks funny where the front and back halves join. It's possible to avoid seams, but as I said above it isn't possible to avoid seams or some other form of visible oddity - there are only trade-offs, which won't be appropriate for all situations.
Right thanks Richard I don't have any of these so I never learnt how they did it. This is why I like procedural "shaders" more than mapped shaders.
Thx for the tip on the statue.
In the case of the statue, there is also the possibility...
Warning: newbie at Renderman so what I write might not be possible in 3delight, it is definitely possible in Cycles(Blender) or OSL
...of creating a procedural shader that uses at input the absolute (world) position of the vertices. When you do so, the material is defined (without discontinuities, unless you explicitly code them) in every point of the 3D space and therefore there are no seams regardless of mesh topology/uv mapping.
This is good for static objects, not for objects that might move/animate, unless you want to give the somehow unsettling feeling that the mesh is "gliding" into texture space.
Thats pretty much what I m looking for as I had done it in blender with home made texture too ( it was befor cycles though since I stoped 3d for a long time and cycles didnt exist at the time) but it looks like its hard or impossible to do it in DS. especialy when starting with buyed shader as they are aparently mostly locked so you can't modyfy the node tree if I anderstand well.
That's exact, you can swap between several different shader spaces : shader, object, world, raster, camera.
Only the UV space (current) works well in animations. This is why procedural function are generally better.
There are technics allowing to have them working better in animation. I still do not manage to program this, this has to be done externally, and I'm not a gifted programmer. Yet most of them work great for static image.