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D-Force Cloth Contract/Expand

nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792
in Daz Studio Discussion

Is there a way to control the direction of contraction and expansion in D-Force?  For example: 

Stretch along length/shrink along width, like an elastic band.

Shrink along normals, like tight clothing.

Comments

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,169

    I just re-read your post, and I don't think it's possible to both expand and contract at the same time. I feel like I've done the basic part of what you're asking before, but I'm having trouble retracing my steps. The slot isn't mapped, and I'm not sure if adding a map slot to it would help. There also isn't an option for contraction-expansion in the options for the dForce Modifier Weight Node.

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792

    Thanks for your reply, Gordig.  Maybe DAZ will incorporate this as a feature sometime soon.  I think it would be useful

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    There is a setting that does one or the other, equally in all directions; it is based on a percentage: Contraction-Expansion Ratio.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872
    edited August 2021

    Pretty sure OP knows about that contract-expand setting being stuck one-way only.

    Having a paintable - contract this and expand that - would be a nice addition.  Though not just limited to widths or lengths.

    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792

    nicstt said:

    There is a setting that does one or the other, equally in all directions; it is based on a percentage: Contraction-Expansion Ratio.

    Yes, "all directions" is the limitation that I am speaking of.  It would be useful to be able to specify Contraction-Expansion Ratio separately for each direction, including along the normals.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,169

    Like I said, you could try adding a map slot to the contraction-expansion parameter and drawing a quick opacity/height map to see what happens, if anything.

  • SpaciousSpacious Posts: 481

    Gordig said:

    Like I said, you could try adding a map slot to the contraction-expansion parameter and drawing a quick opacity/height map to see what happens, if anything.

     This is a pretty good idea.  You can add a map to most parameters in DAZ, and often they make some pretty interesting things happen.

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792

    Spacious said:

    Gordig said:

    Like I said, you could try adding a map slot to the contraction-expansion parameter and drawing a quick opacity/height map to see what happens, if anything.

     This is a pretty good idea.  You can add a map to most parameters in DAZ, and often they make some pretty interesting things happen.

    On such a map - Would white would represent a value of 200%, black a value of 0%, and the shades of gray a value in-between, with 127 gray being a value of 100%?  Also, how would a contact/expand along normals be represented?  I guess we have to experiment a bit.

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792
    edited August 2021

    nakamuram002 said:

    Spacious said:

    Gordig said:

    Like I said, you could try adding a map slot to the contraction-expansion parameter and drawing a quick opacity/height map to see what happens, if anything.

     This is a pretty good idea.  You can add a map to most parameters in DAZ, and often they make some pretty interesting things happen.

    On such a map - Would white would represent a value of 200%, black a value of 0%, and the shades of gray a value in-between, with 127 gray being a value of 100%?  Also, how would a contact/expand along normals be represented?  I guess we have to experiment a bit.

    Tried to do a map, but it is not possible to specify one in the "Contraction-Expansion Ration" box.  If it were possible in present-day DS, a map could only specify which areas undergo contraction-expanstion and the quantity, not the direction of contraction-expansion.

    Post edited by nakamuram002 on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,169

    nakamuram002 said:

    nakamuram002 said:

    Spacious said:

    Gordig said:

    Like I said, you could try adding a map slot to the contraction-expansion parameter and drawing a quick opacity/height map to see what happens, if anything.

     This is a pretty good idea.  You can add a map to most parameters in DAZ, and often they make some pretty interesting things happen.

    On such a map - Would white would represent a value of 200%, black a value of 0%, and the shades of gray a value in-between, with 127 gray being a value of 100%?  Also, how would a contact/expand along normals be represented?  I guess we have to experiment a bit.

    Tried to do a map, but it is not possible to specify one in the "Contraction-Expansion Ration" box.  If it were possible in present-day DS, a map could only specify which areas undergo contraction-expanstion and the quantity, not the direction of contraction-expansion.

    I was misremembering, and it doesn't appear to be possible to add a map slot to a parameter that's already created; it has to be done when you're first creating the morph. My suggestion may not work.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    You cant use a map afaik, but you can control all the settings with weight maps.

    select the object go create>new dforce modified weight node

    you can then paint weight paps to control various settings

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792

    j cade said:

    You cant use a map afaik, but you can control all the settings with weight maps.

    select the object go create>new dforce modified weight node

    you can then paint weight paps to control various settings

    Weight maps only control the amount of effect that the simulation has on the target.  They do not let you control the direction of the effect.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872

    AFAIK, Daz Weight Maps are 0-100.  Have used them for occasional thing.

    Never tried negative, but weight maps traditionally are zero or postive only.  So work with contract OR expand OR default of neither.  Not a combo.

    So, as OP wrote.

    More control over contract/expand for one surface on a mesh would be awesome, and that means adding this feature which doesn't exist to a surface.  Would be another nice sophistication.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,834

    nakamuram002 said:

    Is there a way to control the direction of contraction and expansion in D-Force?  For example: 

    Stretch along length/shrink along width, like an elastic band.

    Shrink along normals, like tight clothing.

    You may try to create a new surface by using Geometry Editor to the part you want it to shrink, e.g. band around the waist. Then in Surface tab, with dynamic surface as deforce modifier for sure, decrease the value of Dynamics Strength a bit, and Contraction-Expansion Ratio as well. Then this part of surface will not drape much but will contract instead.

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792

    windreaver0118 said:

    nakamuram002 said:

    Is there a way to control the direction of contraction and expansion in D-Force?  For example: 

    Stretch along length/shrink along width, like an elastic band.

    Shrink along normals, like tight clothing.

    You may try to create a new surface by using Geometry Editor to the part you want it to shrink, e.g. band around the waist. Then in Surface tab, with dynamic surface as deforce modifier for sure, decrease the value of Dynamics Strength a bit, and Contraction-Expansion Ratio as well. Then this part of surface will not drape much but will contract instead.

    My question is general, not specific to something I am presently trying to do.   I have created new surfaces for the purposes of applying different simulation parameters.  However that still does not give me control over the DIRECTION that the contraction-expansion force is actiong.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,834

    nakamuram002 said:

    windreaver0118 said:

    nakamuram002 said:

    Is there a way to control the direction of contraction and expansion in D-Force?  For example: 

    Stretch along length/shrink along width, like an elastic band.

    Shrink along normals, like tight clothing.

    You may try to create a new surface by using Geometry Editor to the part you want it to shrink, e.g. band around the waist. Then in Surface tab, with dynamic surface as deforce modifier for sure, decrease the value of Dynamics Strength a bit, and Contraction-Expansion Ratio as well. Then this part of surface will not drape much but will contract instead.

    My question is general, not specific to something I am presently trying to do.   I have created new surfaces for the purposes of applying different simulation parameters.  However that still does not give me control over the DIRECTION that the contraction-expansion force is actiong.

    OK, got it. In general, the current dForce engine just gives a force to a surface to drape (unless you set Gravity value less than 0 in Simulation Settings, then it will be anti-gravity to float). Draping is one way direction to the earth with the effect of positive gravity. So on the whole there will be no other 'directions' unless you put in a wind node. As far as I understand, you might want that surface to go up, left or right? In this case, I don't think current dForce engine is able to make these effect. Weight node map just prevents the brushed surface from draping or too much draping, so it cannot help with the case. Besides, Buckling and Damping related parameters will not help either. Just like the simulation we do in Marvelous Designer, that engine is better than dForce but it also cannot realize such a similar request...

     

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 792

    windreaver0118 said:

    nakamuram002 said:

    windreaver0118 said:

    nakamuram002 said:

    Is there a way to control the direction of contraction and expansion in D-Force?  For example: 

    Stretch along length/shrink along width, like an elastic band.

    Shrink along normals, like tight clothing.

    You may try to create a new surface by using Geometry Editor to the part you want it to shrink, e.g. band around the waist. Then in Surface tab, with dynamic surface as deforce modifier for sure, decrease the value of Dynamics Strength a bit, and Contraction-Expansion Ratio as well. Then this part of surface will not drape much but will contract instead.

    My question is general, not specific to something I am presently trying to do.   I have created new surfaces for the purposes of applying different simulation parameters.  However that still does not give me control over the DIRECTION that the contraction-expansion force is actiong.

    OK, got it. In general, the current dForce engine just gives a force to a surface to drape (unless you set Gravity value less than 0 in Simulation Settings, then it will be anti-gravity to float). Draping is one way direction to the earth with the effect of positive gravity. So on the whole there will be no other 'directions' unless you put in a wind node. As far as I understand, you might want that surface to go up, left or right? In this case, I don't think current dForce engine is able to make these effect. Weight node map just prevents the brushed surface from draping or too much draping, so it cannot help with the case. Besides, Buckling and Damping related parameters will not help either. Just like the simulation we do in Marvelous Designer, that engine is better than dForce but it also cannot realize such a similar request...

     

    Thanks for the summary windreaver0118!! 

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,834

    nakamuram002 said:

    Thanks for the summary windreaver0118!! 

    Don't mention it. Sorry for having not helped you with realizing what you need sad

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