Age appropriate Daz Studio?
cclesue
Posts: 420
in The Commons
At what age do you consider appropriate to introduce Studio. However we might think of DAZ as being complex and sophisticated in its basic form it is little more than a digital form of cut and paste paperdolls and as such when would you consider introducing your child to the world of digital manipulations? If not Studio what might be a better app for a young child?
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What is age in question?
Personally, i was introduced to Poser by my father when i was around 12-13yo. However, i didn't have internet until i was 14-15.
I guess the main thing is whether you're ok with your child starting with mostly intact realistic naked forms initially.
I've been in this business making content now for 17 yrs. At that time my oldest was 6 and youngest was 3. To me it is no different than if you got your kid a Barbie doll or any other doll for that matter. Kids do need to know about the human body. You introduce kids to it early in a health manner and they learn to respect themselves and others and it opens needed dialog with your kids. It is never too soon to learn about your body and you shouldn't be afraid to talk to your kids about it regardless of age. That is just my opinion though. Everybody has their own and what they believe is right or wrong.
There is nothing stopping you from saving a dressed figure as a scene subset. I've actually got a few saved that way as they often use the same outfit for multiple images.
As the defaults don't have gen anatomical elements (Please don't call em that either.) I don't see an issue.
frank0314 said it pretty damn well.
You see what kids are doing these days... practicing mass murder in the video games, for instance.
Formal sexual education occurs pretty young. That's probably a reasonable age to introduce this hobby if one is worried about the nude human form, IMO.
This is one area where I think society could be more relaxed and more open in the discussion without necessarily being more tolerant of excess in the real-life behaviors.
If they are old enough to play games like Fortnite, then this should be okay.
Not necessarily "rainbow monkey furry with a latex anatomical element" kind of relaxed, but relaxed enough to make the pictures. I mean... I was probably drawing pinups/n00dz with a pencil at that age, and I didn't turn out that bad, I don't think.
I let my younger son play with DS when he was about 14 or 15 I think. I would have let him start a little earlier, but he was still interested in playing OUTSIDE at the time. LOL.
Yep that's a good idea, but as soon as they want to change clothes they'll be seeing everything anyway. Personally I would be fine with it but of course each parent is different. Just a question to ask oneself.
Sculptris is another of several ways to experiment with "digital clay" - there is similar stuff available for Android including Poser-like, anatomical reference stuff. There are also well-done animation books for kids that go back to paper cut-outs and flip books, as well as looking forward to stop-motion and claymation. Way more choice than I had as a kid - I only had clockwork 8mm and 16mm movie film for the most part.
I would also insert Hexagon and basic geometry into the mix. And View-Master which I think is higher resolution than a lot of VR, for sighted children.
And when the lights go out and there's only candles and your imagination, then Silly Putty is king in my book!
Edit: buy an old View-Master and reels, not the more recent ones that Mattel tried. Also there was an authoring kit component to View-Master but (like reviving Polaroid say) this was and remains a tricky niche. 3rd parties like Kula 3D and Berezin (both are "dot com") have related stuff and Kula has a prismatic attachment for cell phones. So kids can do stereo pictures with a smartphone.
When they show an interest in the subject, then it's apporpriate. There are all sorts of things they can learn without ever using a human or even humanoid figure. If fact, learning about lighting and composition may actually be better without human figures.
If your squeemish about exposing them to "real" people, there are always mannequin and ball joint doll figures they could play with.
In the end, it's a matter of your - and they're - comfort level.
I feel it depends on the parent and what they personally do with DS/3D,also where they live since different places view nudity and sexuality differently. I got my daughter started early (7) on traditional mediums to see if she had the creative gene. She would often try and come into my office to see what I was working on in DS/3D, but since most of my work involves nudity, some extreme or dark themes, I kept her away from it until she was 13 and had a good understanding on the birds and bees, sexuallity, etc (thanks to her Mom, LOL). turns out she wasn't really into 3D that much, but freakin loves sculpture and pottery and now at 18 is getting really good at it. At least she's not addicted to her phone and toxic social media, knock on wood!
What about 3d sculpture though? (zbrush, etc)
My 5 year old neice got a kick out of dial spinning. She particularly thought it was funny to play with the boobage.
I let her play with Mudbox to see if she would like it, but she said it wasn't hands on enough since it was virtual.
It's also important to realize that children look at naked forms in a completely different way. When I see a semi-naked or topless woman it might make me a little uncomfortable (a little embarrassed perhaps?) but that's because of "adult issues". And it's my problem, not hers. Children don't approach things that way. There is a reason why we have this saying of "being sexualy active".
And just to go a wee bit offtopic.. the same thing applies to other things as well. I'll never forget the story from an aunt of mine who unfortunately passed away already (this is from some time ago): she wanted to make sure her 8 year old understood the concept of same-sex affairs because of their new neighbors (really awesome dudes btw): "So why do you think Mr. X and Mr. Y are living together?".
Imagine her surprise when her toddler told her: "Because they love each other, obviously!". He was perfectly fine with the whole thing. It gets better: he even asked the neighbor for advice when he had his first crush on a girl from his school. Yeah, I love that story...
But yeah, my take? It depends on the kid and the parents in question.
Fair. Though maybe in the future will get upon idea of entering digital world and reconsider. Who knows?
I'd rather kids play with DAZ Studio than most computer games. Rather they see a naked butt than an exploding head.
That's not answering the original question, however. The answer is: who knows? I've known 12 years olds more mature and responsible than their parents.
100% this. Children aren't born with weird sexual hangups; they're learned from adults and general society, and normalizing the human body helps avoid that.
If a child has shown interest in 3D as a tool for their art, ask them; what would you like to 'draw'? If it's cars, trains, horse, lorries, diggers or cats and dogs - then all good.
If it's mummy and daddy as well, then perhaps a couple of preconfigured characters with modesty encompassing clothing - the essentials packs come with basic undergarments. You could set up a pared down library where you've saved copies of allowed content (you could save an alternate version of G8 with undergarments already fitted as a scene subset or figure preset as already mentioned). You may also want to consider what kind of body type is loaded 'out of the box'; Daz's defaults are quite svelte/'modelesque' - perhaps something more in keeping with average people?
If they do want to include people, it might be worth having a word with your child's teacher/s (art and biology for instance) and see if they have any advice on a way that you could introduce things in sync with the current curriculum.
If, however, you are wanting to introduce 3D to them, then perhaps when they share their drawings/paintings with you, you can show them something similar of yours - if they take interest in this 'new technique' then see above. At the end of the day though, I think they should be encouraged to continue drawing and painting and not see 3D as a replacement.
You don't state what your views are, nor any religious or societal restrictions that might apply for you. I'm of the opinion that protecting someone from X by pretending X doesn't exist just breeds igorance, not innocence. In this case, nudity =/= sexuality, you can have either without the other. You might not agree with that, or that view might not be appropriate based on your circumstances so ultimately any advice given in this thread you will need to adapt.
You can go into the texture files and edit the character skins so that they aren't so "realistically naked" when viewed in Daz. If i had to do it quick and messy i would just use one of my "tanned skin" products to tell me where the tops and bottoms are on the texture map. Paint that part of the G3 or G8 texture all white so anytime my kids load up that characters texture files it will be loaded in with white underwear.
Another option is to use V4 and M4, and simply not install/delete the naked textures.
I'm not a parent, so don't really feel qualified to answer. Even if I was, I don't know your children or the society you live in, so would be hesitant anyway. But I'll share a couple of thoughts, make of them what you will.
I think I'd try not to give the message that the naked human form is something to be ashamed of. Daz offers the chance to explore it in all its variety, which might be a really good thing in these body conscious/body shaming times. Probably leave off the anatomical elements till later though. If you get any blowback from conservative neighbours, you could try pointing out that we were allegedly eternally punished for putting clothes ON, not taking them OFF.
On the other hand, I dread to think what I might have created with Daz if I'd had it as a teenage boy (when I WAS a teenage boy, we were making do with ASCII art). So you might want to think in advance how you'll want to deal with the stuff they'll produce once the hormones start pumping. Try to consider the issue from their pint of view as well as yours.
Having been raised in a society where the whole family goes to sauna together without any clothes, until the kids themself start getting uncomfortable with their changing bodies, I would consider the Genesis models (wo anatomical elements) the same as any dolls that are sold in the stores, they can also be stripped of clothing and how many parents are sitting by and watching that the kids do not remove the clothes or give them a speach about human anatomy and sexuality when giving them the said dolls.
As a little girl, I discovered the cartoons in Playboy and attempted to copy their style of drawing. I was oblivious to the rest of the content of the magazine until a few years went past. Children with talent, whatever sort, need to explore all aspects of that talent within reason. I would not introduce a very young child to an art form that uses extremely dangerous tools or materials, when they have not yet learned to control their muscles that well or have the brain development. But under guidance and encouragement, it seems that 3D programs would be safe for a child of reasonable developement and patience. It could enhance their appreciation of the arts, maths, science, history, writing, geography... the list just goes on and on.
But, the younger the age, the less time a child may spend focused on one thing at a time. My granddaughter two years ago was like a butterfly, dancing back and forth from her art table to the pool, then to chase my dog, back to the table where I was trying to show her some basic watercolor steps to build on. She never stopped moving. Two years later, she is in a summer school program for the arts, visual and dance and eight years old.
So, what age, what focus, what life circumstances need to be considered. There is no one answer. The only one I can think that is wrong, is to stop a child's creativity as it is trying to bloom and crush it.
I thank all for your input. the reason I brought the subject up is because I have a granddaughter age 9 that comes to visit and with nothing here to intertain her spends all her time curled up in the sofa clutching her Ipad. I often thought she might get a kick out of Studio but wondered if it would be
1) alright to introduce her to the program. Her mother is quite artistic minded and I'm told the child is also.
2) What would be the best way to go about it and
3)What to start her out with.
Agree with most of the considerations expressed here.
My two cents:
1) Could be fine for her and her mother - unless her mother doesn't prefere she not staying too much at the pc
2) Tell here "would you like to see a pastime that I find nice and amusing?" And start working with her letting her free to experiment remaining by her side.
3) About human figures, you can start with something like the Toon Generations or similar, as already suggested setting up Daz for her to use only a non-problematic content directory.
@cclesue, talk to her. Ask her what her favorite shows, movies, books... are? That might give you an idea if the Toons (great idea there!), or faries, fantasy, Sci-Fi, real world, landscapes - UltraScenery, or let her mix it up with random shapes and shaders and props.
Going further explain the shaping and other tabs if she shows an interest. Maybe she would enjoy creating her own characters.
Show her some of your renders, talk about them. How you went about creating them.
Very well said and good advice, I probably should have followed with my oldest daughter. When she was 10 and the first time a boy called the house asking for her. I told the boy if he ever called back here again I would stab him in the jugular. Just was not ready for that talk.
Actually you can get her into Daz and don't even have to get the Genesis series models. There are many stand alone models that are more toon like and perfectly safe for her age group, you could introduce her to and some are even free. You can check out 3DU for a lot of stand alone, as well as Nursoda at Renderosity and other models and sites.