Anyone here use Alienware for Daz?
WillowRaven
Posts: 3,787
My family jokes me that I kill laptops on purpose. I don't mean to, but I can't seem to go more than one year before my keys, and this time the actual casing around the touch-pad, literally begin to warp from heat.
I have a Samsung Series 7 Chronos; i7-3635QM CPU @ 2.40GHz
I was told when I bought it, just over a year ago, after I melted the last one, keys and hard drive, both, that this would take the punishment of my 5000+ renders on a daily basis. And it has ... for a year.
So here I am, again, about to buy a new laptop, before this one decides to go out on me, too.
I know many of you run various 3D applications, for both renders and building models. I imagine Vue or Carrara scenes would potentially tax a system more than what I do. And I would think Hexagon, and such, would too. Do any of you use Alienware?
I've been told 'that's what I need', but I am not familiar with their product. My son want's one for his gaming, but I'm not gaming; just doing Daz all day, every day; so I'm not sure it's really what I need.
The one I have the opportunity to buy is the ALW141870SLV model. Anyone play with this?
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Comments
I wouldn't touch Alienware with a ten feet pole and if I got it for free. Their price simply isn't worth the tech inside and that has only gotten worse since they got bought out by DELL.
If you really do nothing but use DS, get yourself a decent desktop.
lol ... ok. What do suggest for a high-use laptop. I would really like to try and keep one for more than a year at a time.
I can't work at a desk. Whatever I get has to be mobile.
I am looking for a new laptop as well. And I was taking a look at the Alienware because the prices seemed to have dropped a bit.
My Dell Inspirion has held up pretty well. It was expensive when I bought it, but well worth it in retrospect. I think it was 2.5k about six years ago and is only now starting to show its age (hence being in the market again).
I do have a desktop as well, but I use the laptop to compose scenes. The desktop to render the final. Its just the way I have to when traveling and such.
Laptops are never the best idea for rendering because of cooling issues, but if you must, you must. If you're looking at Alienware money anyway, I would advise that you go to Xotix and get a Sager instead. They will make it to order with no brand or labeling on the outside (making it much less attractive to thieves than a giant alien face).
I paid about $1400 for this laptop: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834216536
It's never been able to use headphones properly because it came with Windows 8 bundled and I formatted that off as fast as I could in favor of Windows 7 (and there were no good sound drivers for this model for that OS, as it turns out). I will definitely do the Xotix thing instead next time.
I will have to agree with Sickle there, that was the gist of my point and good advice on the laptops to boot.
Laptops are never the best idea for rendering because of cooling issues, but if you must, you must. If you're looking at Alienware money anyway, I would advise that you go to Xotix and get a Sager instead. They will make it to order with no brand or labeling on the outside (making it much less attractive to thieves than a giant alien face).
I paid about $1400 for this laptop: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834216536
It's never been able to use headphones properly because it came with Windows 8 bundled and I formatted that off as fast as I could in favor of Windows 7 (and there were no good sound drivers for this model for that OS, as it turns out). I will definitely do the Xotix thing instead next time.
...you mean Xotic?
IMVHO it is definitely worth the extra to get a laptop designed for extended heavy use of the CPU and/or GPU. I have a 2+ year old MSI GT70 and have been extremely happy with it. The MSI Gaming series laptops have a “Cooler Boost” feature which is an extra fan (with an optimized cooling system) that you can turn on during rendering (or gaming) to keep the system cool. I've run renders using Octane (GPU) for as long as 16 hours and the GPU never gets above 61°C, and CPU renders with LuxRender for over 40 hours and the CPU never gets over 68°C, which is well under their max temps. Another big plus is the case never gets hot anywhere except for where the exhaust vents are, and even there it isn't even close to being to hot to touch. I've even had two renders going at the same time, one using the CPU with Carrara 8.1, and one rendering with Octane (GPU) via Carrara 8.5, and temps were only about 1 degree higher (this is a serious load on a laptop).
The MSI gaming series laptops are a bit more expensive than a standard laptop (and much cheaper than an Alienware), but IMHO they are well worth it, and designed to hold up to the demands encountered with 3D Graphics (http://www.msi.com/product/nb/#?category=GT+Series&category_no=1159). Regardless, like others have already mentioned, cooling with whatever brand laptop you get is very important, and the larger gaming laptops will definitely work better (and longer) when used for 3D. I’ve been using laptops as my primary 3D computer for years because I really prefer/need the portability. I got my first gaming laptop over 6 years ago, and quickly realized just how much better suited it was for 3D than a standard laptop. With rather heavy use, and a lot of rendering, I used my first gamer for 4 years, and only replaced it because I really needed to get more than 4Gb of RAM. I’ve used my current machine for over 2 years now (it has 24Gb of RAM, and an Nvidia GTX 670M with 3Gb of VRAM) and it’s still going strong (though the new MSI’s with 8Gb of VRAM look really tempting - if I could afford it).
Many years ago I had a Sager at work. It had fantastic specs for the price, and overall was a good machine, so like SickleYield suggested, they definitely are worth a serious look as well. I looked at the Sager laptops when I got my MSI, and they were a bit more expensive for equivalent specs. Given the quality of my MSI GT70, and the outstanding cooling it has (though it is almost as loud as a typical desktop when cooler boost is on), when I replace it I'll probably get another MSI, unless Sager (or someone else) has a system with similar cooling capabilities and lower prices.
I use an Alienware Desktop, and personally have heard nothing but good things from people who actually have them. Admittedly, vanity played a small part in my own initial decision, and sure, "you could build the same machine yourself for cheaper..." Great! Although remember to factor in the cost of your time in doing so, and also the fact that the prebuild comes with a warranty. Also, alien head stickers! :O
Oh, I definitely use prop-fans at all times. I go through fans a lot; about one every three months. They just die on me ... lol.
I'm just hard on computers ... lol.
...you mean Xotic?
Yup, that is what I meant. Sorry about that!
It's already been established that a desktop is not an option for the OP, Atticus, or I would strongly endorse building. That's what I've been doing since I started in 3D. But these machines are my livelihood - I don't just want complete control over their creation, I need to have it in order to ensure that they do their best work for me. A lot is at stake, and I'm not willing to trust it to anyone else. Also, Newegg guarantees all of their parts.
(Not that that means I'm an expert at this process. I'm sure DAZ_Spooky, whom I have repeatedly consulted about hardware, had a good laugh imagining me wrestling with the fan setup he suggested I get for the new CPU. You never heard so much swearing.)
Lol ... I can imagine.
I use my system for my livelihood, as well, which is why I'm so hard on it and why I want to find a system that will work for my needs. I need portability because I'm usually working from my bed, into the wee hours of the morning, while I stay up to conference with my European clients.
My renders are, on average, between 5000 and 7000 pixels and often employ many shaders and customized textures. Some scenes are 'simple' in composition, but many are complex. And even though my current system is much faster than my old Dell (that one I had to place the fan and laptop over a roasting pan containing two 2-liter bottles of ice to keep it from shutting down in mid render),
And knowing my stuff isn't near as jaw-dropping as some of the renders I see in the galleries, I figure it's the size of my renders that tax my systems so much. That, and how many hours a day I work, seven days a week.
And one of these days, I may even get into basic modeling, lol. Then what would I do? So I really appreciate all of the pointers on finding a laptop that will meet my needs and keep my publishers calm ... lol. Every time I need a new computer they begin to panic. It really messes with production time and deadlines, lol.
I remote control my Render PC from the lil notebook by my bed... best of both worlds!
I use LogMeIn.
...one thing to look for is a notebook that has dual fans with separate intakes and vents that draw fresh air though the system over the CPU/GPU the than the conventional single side vent.
Though on the slightly pricey side (base model 2,812$ at Xotic) the MSI GT72 comes with a 4th generation i7 CPU, 32GB DDR3 memory, Nvidia 980M GPU with 8GB GDDR5, x4 128GB SSDs in RAID setup + 1 7200PM 1TB HDD. 17" IPS display, and able to drive up to four external displays. The Nvidia GPU is also modular, allowing for upgrading unlike most other notebooks which have the GPU soldered to the board. Render Street seems to give this particular unit a fair amount of praise in their "Best Notebooks for 3D Rendering" survey.
For an additional 134$ you can "upgrade" to Win7 Pro from 8.1 (the OEM for Win7 Pro costs about the same if you get it at Newegg).
I can offer a little advice for how I have managed to get my laptops to last a little longer (and not be outright terrible at rendering)...
The first is obvious; spend as much as you reasonably can. A little more investment on the front end can turn into a year or two of extra use. However the downside is for the first year or so you will be extremely protective of your investment. (But then a little babying of the new toy can't hurt.)
Battery. While working, remove it. Having the battery in while doing extensive work while on A/C power can degrade the battery life. It also adds heat to your system and potentially some memory drag if there is battery life software going.
Operating System. The first thing I did when my laptop showed up; backed up the hard drive, formatted it and installed the OS the way I wanted it to be. Removing pre-loaded software I didn't need, etc. Please it let me segment the hard drive for a little faster seek time.
Keyboard / Monitor. Whenever possible I do not use the laptop's keyboard or monitor. I plug in an external monitor and a USB keyboard. On longer trips I have begged and borrowed from the hotel to get an external monitor for my stay. Or used the room TV. Or, when it was a road trip, took one of my own along.
Fans. Every couple of months I will unscrew the back and clean the dust out of the fans. Takes two minutes but makes an incredible difference.
Cooling. Whenever I think I might be rendering something on it, I put the laptop on a cooling pad to allow for better air circulation. Or I prop it up so that its at an extreme angle with more air passing underneath it.
As others have said, a laptop is definitely not the best route to take for this, but often it is the only route available. In my personal situation I would have about 75% productive time if I didn't have the flexibility.
If you are going through laptops and fans that fast you may have a problem with spiky power lines. Consider investing in a UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply).
I've heard the same. I don't know owners of AW hardware who regret their purchases and despite Dell has historically made computers that weigh as much as cinderblocks only uglier they have great support and a great track record.
I would not survive without mine, I can tell you that. It's a heavy mother, though, weighs about 40 lbs. - I wouldn't consider it something you would add to a laptop workflow if there's a need for portability.
Pardon an impertinent question about your bed, :lol: but if you use the lappy in bed, do you keep it on a hard surface, or is it actually sitting on the cloth? Anything soft can block air vents and cause overheating.
I work from an adjustable bed, so I stay reclined, saving my back from hunching at a desk and sitting on my butt all day, like I used too when I worked at my drawing table. I have a fancy lap desk, made for laptops, and on that, a double fan that props up at adjustable angles.
Because my computers are necessary for my kid's teenaged eating habit, not to mention my liking a roof over my head, lol, I don't take short cuts on protecting my hardware. But I can't not run it for 18 or more hours a day with several programs all going at once without them showing the abuse within 9 months to a year of my buying it brand new.
The bulk of AW is partly why my gamer friends are telling me it's what I need. That it's cooling capabilities and horsepower are made for digital media.
It would just be nice if I can find a system I don't need to replace on a yearly basis, if at all possible. I shelled out over $2500 on this Samsung between the computer, accessories, the extended warranty and the tech support package.
I don't mind spending the money if what I buy does what I need when I need it to. I am just hoping to spend it on other things than a new laptop every year, lol.
I like the idea of remote rendering. Compose and test all you want on the laptop, then save to a network drive. Bring up a remote desktop on the render box, load the scene and fire up the render. That also allows you to keep setting up more renders and running other programs on the laptop without having it maxed out all the time. For what you spend replacing laptops, you can probably afford to build/buy a new render node every 3 years. It's a business expense, right?
Yes, it's a business expense, so anything I buy is justifiable as long as I make that money back, lol.
To be honest, I'm not sure how I would render remotely. I though I couldn't even open a scene on another computer because the file structure differs.
I got rid of my desktop when I moved to the laptop. But there are currently four laptops in my house, and an old desktop that doesn't have Daz on it. How would I tell as Daz render, not Reality or anything like that, just Daz, to render on another computer while I work on another Daz scene?
I'm just sort of uncertain of the process.
Yes, using Daz to render on a remote might be more difficult than Reality. Figuring out all the issues of how to do that might not be time well spent for you. I think if you have the content and data folders mirrored, the scene files would work. I think the joke, "Damn it Jim, I'm an artist not an IT Manager" applies here. :lol: With Reality/Luxrender, it's pretty simple. There are more steps than just pushing the Render button, but it's not that complex.
lol ... Exactly ... I don't use Reality or Lux for that very reason ... it's more complicated that just hitting render, lol.
I am more likely to spend twice as much money on a plug-in or filter app to get the affects I want rather than messing with learning a new software or having to take added steps. I like to get my scene done and move onto the next project. Authors and publishers like that, too, lol.
For transfering DS scenes, I use Content Gatherer (http://www.daz3d.com/content-gatherer).
It has been pretty foolproof and I haven't had any issues. It also works really well for archiving old scenes.
Fire up the application, drag and drop the scene file into it, and it will bring up a list of all of the used files. From there you can have the application collect all of the files and place them into a transportable ZIP. The Zip file will contain the directory structure and all necessary files. Just unzip it at the Desktop, point DS to the top directory as if it was any other Content directory, and you are good to go.
So I don't need to mirror my Daz and contents files on both systems, the application does it for me. Now all I have to figure out it how to remotely connect my laptop to the old desktop.
I am assuming I have to at least have Daz on both systems, right?
And I'd need to figure out if the old desktop even has the juice for DS 4.7 and 7000 pixels+.
Yes, you would need DS installed on the desktop. However, you wouldn't need any content to be installed. All the content will transfer in the zipfile.
Just mimicing your install on the desktop would not work with this set up. You would be missing all of the custom geometry files and probably some texture files, both created while working on your scene. Content Gatherer, however, collects all of these files for you.
What an amazing tool for just $22.95 ... I was ready to pay much more than that if it did what I was understanding that it did.
OK ... so I buy a new laptop tomorrow, one with more horsepower than the one I have. Then I'll be here asking ya'll how I set up my remote set-up.
As said above, I'm an artist, Jim, not an IT tech. ;P
....what are the specs of the desktop?
The old DT is an HP Compaq 6005 Pro SFF
AMD E-350 Processor 1.6 GHz
1.61 usable RAM
32 bit
Does it matter if the Daz version I build scenes in is 64 bit?
And what about Daz Dynamics?
...you'd be better off just using the notebook then.
32 Bit only gives you 2GB maximum to render with (including the Daz programme - 4.7 takes about 100MB in idle mode with no scene loaded) and a duo core 1.6 GHz CPU is pretty slow (that was what my old Toshiba notebook haswith a total of 4GB memory and I was getting lot of render crashes in 3.1 while 4.0 was petty much unusable). When I rendered in Daz 3.1 on it I was seeing memory usage for the application hit 1.5+ GB on many occasions and that was for a fairly simple scene at 900 x 900.. Using UE, HSS, or the elite textures would be "iffy" t best. You would also need to install the 32 bit version of Dz 4.7 on it.
Daz dynamics would freeze and crash on my old notebook which is why I never bought any more dynamic clothing.