More Non-photorealistic Renders (NPR III)

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Comments

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398

    Thanks it's on a GTX 1660 Super, so when someone asks "Is this Nvidia card good enough for Iray?" it really depends on what kind of stuff you're gonna be doing with Iray.

  • csaacsaa Posts: 823
    edited May 2023

    If there's one thing I enjoyed using Daz Iray it's how its photorealism lends itself easily to dramatic lighting. By studying everyday experiences, or examples in theatre, film or TV, and then experimenting with the Daz lighting system, it's straightforward to paint with light and come up with a good image.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Cheers!

    vrba79 said:

    32 Seconds, Iray. No postwork.

    Post edited by csaa on
  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 963

    csaa said:

     

    SapphireBlue,

    Thanks for the kind feedback! Coming from a photography background, there's a lot to be said about photorealistic renders, and that's even though I spend most of my time learning about NPR techniques. If my goal was mainly to produce a compelling image, then photorealism is one tool I'd reach for. But lately for my projects, the image is just one component to consider. My choice of visual style depends on other related factors, and getting every one working together coherently is my larger goal.

    Given how that can be a difficult juggle, I veer to NPR mainly for its simplicity. Compared to photorealistic rendering, I find myself attending to less concerns with NPR, freeing up the needed mental space. What am I saying? What emotions am I trying to convey? With NPR I find less things getting in the way of expressing these aspects visually.

    Aside from this NPR thread, I also recommend looking over the MANGA STYLE & VISUAL STYLE topic thread here in the Daz Forums. The posts go way, way back, and I think the shaders rely on 3Delight rather than IRay. I myself haven't tried them; someone more knowledgeable would have to explain if they work with the latest Daz Studio at all. Nonetheless it's interesting to find that what I'm trying now has been done a while back -- all that without the steep learning curve that Blender comes with, or the extra hoops I go through with my workflow.

    Cheers!

     

    I totally understand going with NPR for its simplicity. It's indeed a lot easier to zero in on creating the right focus and mood, especially when you're not dealing with a single image but many as for a story.

    The color work in your renders with the tactical assault outfit helmet really grab attention! I appreciate the clean-cut npr style you've developed with your work flow. yes

  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 963

    vrba79 said:

    32 Seconds, Iray. No postwork.

    Okay, you got me with the 32 seconds! surprise Very nice moody feel to this! yes

  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 963

    LoreMistress Izaria said:

    @csaa

    I can confirm that Visual Style Shaders still works in the current version, and they work best in 3Delight. They do render in iRay, but the colors get washed out (which is a style in its own right).

    This has been on my wishlist for a long while, but I wasn't sure it did anything in Iray. I may well get it now! yes I can always mess around further in post. Cheers for the info!

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398
    edited May 2023

    SapphireBlue said:

    vrba79 said:

    32 Seconds, Iray. No postwork.

    Okay, you got me with the 32 seconds! surprise Very nice moody feel to this! yes

    Thanks. Its a detective comic, with some "Lupin the 3rd: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine" inspiration thrown in.

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398

    A ghostly character. This is one of my favorite techniques for doing spirits. Its three seperate renders, the background and then two of the woman. The middle layer is a render of her in ghostly colors, set to "Screen", then I take a faded eraser brush to parts of the "solid" foreground layer.

  • csaacsaa Posts: 823
    edited May 2023

    vrba79,

    Can we stick to a gentleman's agreement to let someone's post/render sit at the head of at least 24 hours? That way the post/render gets enough attention and feedback. You have good work; as far as the flow of conversation is concerned, I don't think it deserves the "spaghetti" treatment in which other posts pop in too soon.

    Sounds good, my friend? This is a wonderful shared space for discussion. Sad to see people split off to each of their own dedicated thread.

    Cheers!

    Post edited by csaa on
  • csaacsaa Posts: 823
    edited May 2023

    Follow up to the earlier two images I shared (towards the bottom of this page).

    Cheers!

    Post edited by csaa on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398

    Certain colors really seem to pop better with that style. Like those wonderful purples!

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398
    edited May 2023

    The lovely lady looter.

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • csaacsaa Posts: 823

     vrba79,

    Choice of color is one aspect that gives an image its pop. Particularly for NPRs, line art and the intensity and color of the rim lighting are other factors the come into play.

    Cheers!

    vrba79 said:

    Certain colors really seem to pop better with that style. Like those wonderful purples!

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398

    Look, I'll stop dressing Wolfe up like Lupin, when it stops being funny to me.

  • csaacsaa Posts: 823

    Parts taken from Korean Street and MK205 sets.

    Cheers!

    Sgt. Inez: Interdiction Cool Down | Daz assets | Blender render | Clip Studio Paint post-edit

  • csaa said:

    vrba79,

    Can we stick to a gentleman's agreement to let someone's post/render sit at the head of at least 24 hours? That way the post/render gets enough attention and feedback. You have good work; as far as the flow of conversation is concerned, I don't think it deserves the "spaghetti" treatment in which other posts pop in too soon.

    Sounds good, my friend? This is a wonderful shared space for discussion. Sad to see people split off to each of their own dedicated thread.

    Cheers!

    I get what you are trying to say when you ask this, but it isn't feasible or necessary. Even with me being gone from the site for days, when I come back to the forum I get bookmarked to the last post I saw. Then I can scroll through and comment on all the posts put up in the days between.(If I so choose). You lose nothing by having others post the same day you do, and if we all had to wait 24hrs before we were allowed to post anything, and we never were able to log in before the next person posted... it just wouldn't work for a community-friendly thread. Thereare many people who can only get online at certain times/days who would be left out. Then the thread would simply be dominated by whichever person was able to hit the sweet spot/time.

    I have seen people 'quote' posts from weeks ago to ask questions or comment. I can understand asking members not to flood the page with their own work, or to limit a single person to maybe only posting 2 pieces a day. But to wait in line for the right to post...?

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,462

    heartheartheart

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398
    edited June 2023

    Working on some later character designs for my comic.

    Had another musing about the tried-and-true 3Delight render engine after visiting the Bryce and Carrara subforums: That's 3Delight's ultimate fate. It's gonna continue to have its supporters, and while Daz3D hasn't flat out given it the axe yet, they will do nothing to support it further. Instead they'll just wait for people to forget about it, so they can one day go "We're removing this depreciated feature nobody even uses any more out of future versions of our software!"

    Post edited by vrba79 on
  • csaacsaa Posts: 823

    Sgt. Inez | Daz Assets | Blender Render | Clip Studio Paint post-edit

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398

  • csaacsaa Posts: 823

    LoreMistress Izaria,

    Thanks for the thoughtful and candid reply!

    As a practical matter, what do you suggest to prevent one or a handful of people from swamping this common thread? Related to this, how do we make the thread more welcoming for people to get feedback on the image they share? I can only think of a back-off or cool-off period as a way to give ample spotlight an image shared, and to keep the jumbled cross-talk low. Self-enforced, of course. as we can only persuade each other and have little recourse to those who may abuse.

    To be honest, you're onto something there in that the whole point may now be moot. There's been a drastic reduction in the number of people who post here, leaving a woeful lack of variety and diversity. Perhaps the rest have followed the cool kids to dabble with the latest AI toy elsewhere. While it's wholly possible that people may someday come back, at this point is it worth sticking around?

    I myself have been asking that for a while, but for different reasons. My NPR interests and workflow involves Daz and Blender ... of the later there's really little interest and uptake here. I may be better off at Blender Artists Community where I can find kindred souls on the same jouney, folks who are discoverng and tackling the same challenges. Not to ding anyone, but being around birds of the same feather makes a big difference.

    Cheers!

     

    LoreMistress Izaria said:

    csaa said:

    vrba79,

    Can we stick to a gentleman's agreement to let someone's post/render sit at the head of at least 24 hours? That way the post/render gets enough attention and feedback. You have good work; as far as the flow of conversation is concerned, I don't think it deserves the "spaghetti" treatment in which other posts pop in too soon.

    Sounds good, my friend? This is a wonderful shared space for discussion. Sad to see people split off to each of their own dedicated thread.

    Cheers!

    I get what you are trying to say when you ask this, but it isn't feasible or necessary. Even with me being gone from the site for days, when I come back to the forum I get bookmarked to the last post I saw. Then I can scroll through and comment on all the posts put up in the days between.(If I so choose). You lose nothing by having others post the same day you do, and if we all had to wait 24hrs before we were allowed to post anything, and we never were able to log in before the next person posted... it just wouldn't work for a community-friendly thread. Thereare many people who can only get online at certain times/days who would be left out. Then the thread would simply be dominated by whichever person was able to hit the sweet spot/time.

    I have seen people 'quote' posts from weeks ago to ask questions or comment. I can understand asking members not to flood the page with their own work, or to limit a single person to maybe only posting 2 pieces a day. But to wait in line for the right to post...?

  • LoreMistress IzariaLoreMistress Izaria Posts: 145
    edited June 2023

    csaa said:

    LoreMistress Izaria,

    Thanks for the thoughtful and candid reply!

    As a practical matter, what do you suggest to prevent one or a handful of people from swamping this common thread? Related to this, how do we make the thread more welcoming for people to get feedback on the image they share? I can only think of a back-off or cool-off period as a way to give ample spotlight an image shared, and to keep the jumbled cross-talk low. Self-enforced, of course. as we can only persuade each other and have little recourse to those who may abuse.

     Honestly? I think there should be two threads for NPR.

    One for technical tips, tutorials, and a place for questions. That thread would not be a place for feedback for individual pieces (as we have here at the moment), but rather a place to find help or new techniques.

    The second thread would be a pure NPR appreciation thread. In that thread, I would say each person can post 2 images a week max, self regulated. If you limit it to one person a day, the thread will die off since not everyone can check each day to see if the daily post spot has already been taken. And realistically, if only one person can post on any given day, then you will only have 7 posts per week... which is a dead thread since new people will be put off trying to compete for that spot.

    If we want more engagement on individual art pieces, we could try to set up a voting process or something as a challenge. It doesn't have to be for prizes so much as bragging rights for the week. It would also be a way to push ourselves individually. Just thoughts...

    Post edited by LoreMistress Izaria on
  • @csaa I am also considering finding a Blender community, but I will still be using Daz for some styles. There are some neat watercolor shader effects I am playing with in Blender.

    And Grease Pencil looks fun.

    I am modeling my first piece now. It's going to be a chibi phoenix... once I get the darned stylized feathers to look how I want them!

  • csaacsaa Posts: 823

    LoreMistress Izaria,

    Setting a limit of 2 or three images per week sounds good. That would introduce a greater chance for variety and in image and people who contribute. I'm not sure if having two separate threads is ideal, particularly given how few of us are now active. I do like keeping tabs of just one thread, and I don't mind if its a mix of show-your-renders together with tutorials and how-tos -- particularly if we keep the polemics low, for example "Genesis-this-and-that is better than that-and-that" or any such grudge matches. And if eventualy the thread becomes crowded, I'm OK splitting it into two as well.

    Question now is: who's going to moderate, and what exactly are the moderation mechanism avaible for non Daz mods?

    Contests? Hmm. Let's see if that sounds good once there's enough people active once more ... fingers crossed.

    Cheers!

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398

    You can make your own homemade "Toon Heroes" style characters with G8.

    All you need is Cartoonized for G8, your favorite character to mix with it, and the materials and hair from Toon Generations for G8.

  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 963

    vrba79 said:

    You can make your own homemade "Toon Heroes" style characters with G8.

    All you need is Cartoonized for G8, your favorite character to mix with it, and the materials and hair from Toon Generations for G8.

    They're super cute! laugh Cartoonized is just so cool to use and great idea to just use the Toon Generations materials with that. Will try that out! yes

  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,764

    I don't think any sort of moderation is possible.

    1) It's hard to accept ownership of a thread if you're not the OP.

    2) If a poster pops in on page XX, how will they know what the rules are- especially if these "rules" were a page or two ago.

    3) Restricting posting is a really tough one- if this thread/forum/3D comics has already light activity.

    4) Posting is spontaneous and I doubt artists want to wait for an opening.

    -------

    If there's a SPAM worry thing going on. THAT POSTER needs to make their own tread and showcase their journey. 3 or 4 pictures that are all the same looking don't add interest in a thread.

    I think that's the underlying feeling that's killing a thread. I don't know how true that is.

    Is this about showcasing finished work(s)?

    Experiments?

    Methods and tutorials for those that are interested in learning?

     

    -------------------

    I think we're fine. When anyone pops in a thread, I suspect they will scroll upward and see all the recenrt posts.

    AND, if someone is going to dominate through posting, I almost think it's deserved since they are so productive.

    Make a lot = show a lot.

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,398

    Cartoonized is my favorite kind of purchase, a multitasker.

  • I love all my cartoon figures and mix and match willy nilly. Cartoonize is a favorite and I have all the Toon Gen items for G8.

     

    As for the thread posting- I personally do not think the thread has been getting an overwhelming amount of posts even now. I'd be just fine if someone wanted to post one a day. I may not comment on every piece, but all you lovely artists should know this- I appreciate seeing your work and following your journey, especially on the days when I am not feeling particularly motivated.

    My opinion- post away and keep those smiles coming, but maybe limit yourself to one post per day.

  • csaacsaa Posts: 823

    Griffin Avid said:

    If there's a SPAM worry thing going on. THAT POSTER needs to make their own tread and showcase their journey. 3 or 4 pictures that are all the same looking don't add interest in a thread.

    I think that's the underlying feeling that's killing a thread. I don't know how true that is.

    Griffin Avid,

    Bravo! THAT, my friend, is calling out the elephant in the room. Along with the loss of people to other fascinating pursuites (generative AI, for example, or opting for photorealism over NPR), the lack of diversity in content, style and technique is what turns a thread stale.

    We've seen folks fork out their personal threads, only to have them come back to the common one. I think the reason there is that there's strength in numbers. Variety ... strength in variety in goals and interests. Diversity is good. For all the benefits of the public commons though, it hurts the community when folks behave as if they have sole ownership of the thread.

    Given the structural obstacles to moderating a thread, without the OP's active participation, I don't know if there's anything else apart from self-moderation to keep a shared thread thriving.

    Cheers!

     

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,948

    This discussion of who should post what has fully run its course, thank you.

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