Jepe's Body Hair Project 8.1

TATSU 3D

Hey everyone,

Before I begin, let me state first off that this post is in no way intended to knock or have a dig at anyone, and secondly I'm by no means an expert in the differences between Genesis 8 and 8.1, or the tech behind it.  I have no idea how complex or difficult it is to get a product that was originally designed to work on G8 to play nice with G8.1. 

That being said, I have owned Jepe's Body Hair Project 78 for ages now, it's a staple part of my G8M characters! I was disappointed when I realised that it no longer worked on G8.1 characters.  So I checked for updates.  I have had a few products update for free to become compatible with G8.1 (FitControl for G8 Male(s) springs to mind, but there are others) that have shown up a free update in DIM. Unfortunately, Jepe has decided to offer the update as a completely standalone product. Not even at a reduced price, but at the same price as for the original product. Sorry, but I cannot justify $30 for a product that I have already purchased, even one that I rely on so often.

So I guess my question is, if other sellers see updating their items from 8 to 8.1 as a free update, why do others feel the need to charge you full price again?  I mean surely if it's a relatively minor update for some, wouldn't it be so for all? Don't get me wrong, this isn't a dig at anyone, I'm just puzzled as to how sellers can take such a vastly different approach to what is esentially an update?  I'd not even mind paying a reduced price for an upgrade, it's just the full price again that irks me a little.... not gonna lie :P

And before anyone says that PA's need to make a living too, I totally get that, and that's not what this is about.  This is more about my confusion as to how different sellers approach product updates from G8 - G8.1.

Any thoughts?

John

FenixPhoenix

I think it all comes down to how much work is involved in adding 8.1 compatibility.

So if it's relatively minor work to include 8.1 compatibility (like adding a new geoshell wearable or adding a line of code), the product can be updated for free because it doesn't merit being it's own product. However, if it involves having to do substantial work (which can include more textures, icons, documentation, presets, etc.) then it's going to be hard to justify doing all that for free because at that point your better off either moving to a different product or repackaging the product as a separate thing (benefitial for those who jumped to the new generation).

Do keep in mind that 8.1 splits the torso into two different maps (head and body), so for texture based products to work on Genesis 8.1 skins (LIEs, for instance) it would be necessary to redo the torso, head and part of the face textures and add those to the products.

My two cents as a PA :).

TATSU 3D

FenixPhoenix said:

I think it all comes down to how much work is involved in adding 8.1 compatibility.

So if it's relatively minor work to include 8.1 compatibility (like adding a new geoshell wearable or adding a line of code), the product can be updated for free because it doesn't merit being it's own product. However, if it involves having to do substantial work (which can include more textures, icons, documentation, presets, etc.) then it's going to be hard to justify doing all that for free because at that point your better off either moving to a different product or repackaging the product as a separate thing (benefitial for those who jumped to the new generation).

Do keep in mind that 8.1 splits the torso into two different maps (head and body), so for texture based products to work on Genesis 8.1 skins (LIEs, for instance) it would be necessary to redo the torso, head and part of the face textures and add those to the products.

My two cents as a PA :).

 

Hey, thanks for the reply. Always good to hear things from the PA side of the fence!

That's kinda what I was saying here though.  The product I am talking about is only geoshells, and looking at the promos, they're exactly the same textures. I would imagine (and again, could be totally wrong here!) that the Fit Control product - being designed to fit many different shapes of clothing and loaded with scripts - would be a whole lot more complex to update, yet that is provided for free.  This 'update' is being sold for full price as a completely new product.

I should say I don't mean to single any particular PA out but this is the one item that caught my eye recently. I mean, I get you have to make money - bills to pay etc. But honestly, this one for me just seems a little steep to be charging for what appears to be only a slightly updated product.  I'm sure if if was some grand update that warranted the further outlay, there's be a bid part fo the iotem description given over to what it brings to the table.  This is especially reinforced when in that description, one line reads: "The UV layout is based on Genesis 8 Male. For Genesis 8.1 Female body hair, Genesis 8 UV Swap product by Daz/Sloshwerk is required."

I'm not going to go on about it, I just simply wanted to voice my opinion as a customer who has spent more than a few dollars that if I feel like it's a bit cheeky to charge full price again, others might well be of the same opinion.  And I say that as a buyer who would have been happy to pay a 'less than full' price for the product update.

FenixPhoenix

My guess is that the PA actually re-worked all the presets so that whatever was in "Torso" would now copy over to both "Body" and "Head". So he actually may have done a lot of work (speculation, as I don't have the products in question).

For our Body Burns, for example, that's what I ended up doing which meant a ton of additional work (as it meant having separate 8.1 presets, having to test them, and having icons dedicated to those presets).

Having said that, I recently found a way to create a Geoshell wearable with a surface selection "template" so that, when you use Genesis 8 presets, the Geoshell will detect that and copy the torso presets to both the body and head. The solution is so absurdly simple, that it made us update for free our Shark Tail for Genesis 8 Males so that 8.1 Characters could use the transitions. Had I found that solution before we worked on the product, I would've included the compatibility from the start. But back then, I would've needed to do double the amount of presets and that would've taken the product out of the intended scope. 

TATSU 3D

I guess we'll never know. But thanks for your comments and insight - it's much appreciated!

Hylas

Just FYI, Project 78 can easily be used on 8.1 with a manual work-around.

Hylas said:

Here's one way to make Bodyhair Project 78 for 8.0 work on 8.1.
Other geoshell products will work in the same or similar ways:

- Load geoshell on 8.1, apply all the materials. The Head and Body area remain white because of the incompatibility.

- Select geoshell, apply IRAY Uber shader to Head and Body area.

- Select Arms area. Right-click, copy surface.

- Select Head area, paste. Repeat with Body area.

- Select Head and Body area. Manually replace all the Arms maps with the equivalent Torso maps. In this case it's just Cutout Opacity and Displacement.

Hope this helps.

 

TATSU 3D

Hylas said:

Just FYI, Project 78 can easily be used on 8.1 with a manual work-around.

Hylas said:

Here's one way to make Bodyhair Project 78 for 8.0 work on 8.1.
Other geoshell products will work in the same or similar ways:

- Load geoshell on 8.1, apply all the materials. The Head and Body area remain white because of the incompatibility.

- Select geoshell, apply IRAY Uber shader to Head and Body area.

- Select Arms area. Right-click, copy surface.

- Select Head area, paste. Repeat with Body area.

- Select Head and Body area. Manually replace all the Arms maps with the equivalent Torso maps. In this case it's just Cutout Opacity and Displacement.

Hope this helps.

 

 

Many thanks @Hylas! I will certainly give that a try and see how it goes!