Is DAZ having general metadata issues with AprilYSH hair?
Mark_e593e0a5
Posts: 1,598
Again, today's new release https://www.daz3d.com/ursula-hair-for-genesis-3-8-and-81-females is lacking appropriate metadata (again). Only the hair item itself is correctly categorized. Everything else (sahping, materials etc) is in Lost and Found.
This seems to be happening again and again and again. It happend to me for
https://www.daz3d.com/sylveren-hair-for-genesis-3-and-genesis-8-and-81-females
https://www.daz3d.com/ajay-hair-for-genesis-8
https://www.daz3d.com/eilis-hair-for-genesis-3--8-females
https://www.daz3d.com/ilias-hair-for-genesis-8
https://www.daz3d.com/iselind-hair-for-genesis-3-and-8-females
And yes, I have filed tickets for each of these. Strangely, all these are made by AprilYSH. No idea why this happens, as I find the Content Library folder structure for these hair items very well organized.
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I've noticed this as well, it's insanely annoying but I have honestly given up in regards to getting it fixed (in regards to the tickets I have in on some of the hairs) and I've stopped sending in tickets regarding AprilYSH's hairs... I don't know if it is the same person doing the metadata for all of AprilYSH's hairs or if there is several, but it sure seems to be one single person since it is Always this same problem with all of AprilYSH's hairs :(
It's actually gone so far that I despite genuinly liking most hairs from AprilYSH I hesitate buying them, since I know the metadata issue going to annoy the heck out of me.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll bring it up with QA. I still use Content Library browser myself so was not aware of metadata issues. AFAIK it hasn't been the same person packaging the items mentioned above so not sure how and what's getting missed. I'll track it through, thanks
While I'm here, it's not a downloads issue, is it? I seem to recall some download options were prone to more missed files and missed data than DIM, and I only use DIM. Would help to narrow down. :)
I only use DIM and yes I have had the same metadata errors. But it is not just your (AprilYSH) hair, but also outoftouch very often. I just look in Lost in Found and go to Content Library and create the metadata now. I tried filing reports but the backlog last year defeated me, although I have noticed the response time is getting better.
Thanks memcneil :) will follow up! OOT might not have known either, will mention them in my report. We PAs make the content library structure, Daz make the metadata... historically so Daz can keep things consistent, cleaner, and also more adjustable than the folder structures.
LOL. If DAZ is doing the metadata for consitency and clarity/cleanness, I would not exactly count this as a success story. I do understand that your hands are tied if it comes to metadata. But since your content structure i very consistent across all your products, that helps quite a bit. I really appciate that.
I'd have stopped the thread title at "Is DAZ having general metadata issues with hair?"
I had a problem with https://www.daz3d.com/2021-11-hair-for-genesis-8-and-81-females being hidden when Filter By Context is active.
I raised a ticket and the reply was that Daz recomends that Filter by Context is switched off when navigating Smart Content, so that I can see all of my content.
So what the purpose of it if it's supposed to be switched off?
If I need a male hairstyle for a female figure, I know where to find one. Having male hairstyles polluting the female list just slows down my workflow.
Heya Mark, it's late Friday night here so this is just a quick check of the G8F versions so far, I'll continue to troubleshoot this (plus other hairs not listed, and other non-hairs I find in my Lost and Found) over the weekend to report to Daz. :)
1. Ursula G8F hair - for me the mats seem to show up in smart content with filter by context checked, only the Usage Tips script is showing up in lost and found. Seems unlikely but maybe it got fixed between the time you downloaded it and I downloaded it?
The mats have lowercase names so that's a separate weirdness*, also happens with a few other products...
2. Sylveren G8F - mats are in smart content but wrongly categorised under Hair > Long > Sylveren... rather than under Materials
3. Ajay G8F - yep, mostly lost and found
4. Eilis G8F - seem to show up in smart content with filter by context checked
5. Ilias G8F - yep, mostly lost and found
6. Iselind G8F - yep, mostly lost and found
I did this quick check because I was wondering whether it's a CMS update issue, perhaps installing with DIM while DS is already running. Reinstalling (with DIM with DS off) didn't seem to help. Unsure.
*The lowercase filenames suggests to me Daz are using a script to do the metadata and it's not working correctly.
I make a point of have D|S off when I run DIM, even though we have recently been told on the forums that it was okay to keep it open.
I should also say that hair that is supposed to be for Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 and/or Genesis 8.1 (both male and female), may only have compatibility set for the first one, say G3F, and others not linked. So the hair is not found if G8M or G8.1F or M is in the scene and selected. Or the hair is for a male, but the female counterpart was set for compatibility.
But this is not just for hair, but for other products that may be cross-generational or across the sexes. That seems to be a harder issue to get through (explain) to Customer Care so they can fix it.
But I need to reiterate, that a well made product makes it worth my time and effort to continue to purchase from a PA who has been treated by DAZ with this sloppy metadata.
The safest bet would be to close DS before installing anything, but if it is open you will need to re-import metadata or a refresh. DS auto refresh's when it opens so everything in theory should be in place if you have it closed while installing products..
I have a script in place that does not allow to start DIM before DS is closed. Nevertheless, if DAZ is doing QA on the PA's, then they should also QA their own doing. I much more have issues with the DAZ-related metadata than with the products itself. The PA's normally deliver a very solid product. Its DAZ involvement (e.g. metadata for Smart Content) that is screwing up things
In my case, I use Smart Content when installing and using the smart content tab. For me it's always metadata problem with AprilYSH's hair (thank you btw, for chiming in and checking it up April! Means a lot :) ) and randomly with other hairs (and other products, truthfully it's gotten worse over all with metadata lately, a lot of new products end up partly or mostly in Lost and Found *sighs*)
This goes way beyond a single author; I've had the same thing happening to me with Ancient Egypt poses and the Egyptian Elephant warrior:
https://www.daz3d.com/ancient-egypt-poses-and-props-for-michael-7
https://www.daz3d.com/egyptian-elephant-warrior-for-african-elephant
That first one is even a 'Daz Originals' which made me wonder about the whole thing. Would it be possible that, just like me, you heavily customized your setup? For example, I've often noticed some "overlap" in categories (think: 'Preset => Cameras' vs. just the 'Cameras' category, or 'Sets => Architecture => Interiors' vs. 'Environments => Architecture => Interior'), stuff like that. In some cases I took action by customizing my library which also included the removal of some by then unneeded categories. Does that also apply to you?
See, the reason why I'm thinking in this direction is because some of the items within my Lost + Found actually have metadata attached to them. For example:
https://www.daz3d.com/angels-secrets-lingerie-and-poses-for-genesis-3-and-8-female-s
Several of the poses found their way into my "Lost + Found", I know they're poses because of the metadata. But it seems they can't be placed in the 'right' category, which could be correct because I happen to recall that many years ago (we're talking at least 3 - 4 years back) I re-arranged the whole thing because my poses were basically all over the place. I also don't use pre-made poses all that much so... this was easier on me.
But now I can't help be convinced that because of some removed categories some products cannot be fully installed and thus end up in Lost + Found.
Thank you, AprilYSH for checking with DAZ on these problems. I have a lot of respect for the PAs who come into the forums and interact with us. I bought the Ursula hair but haven't installed it yet. Hopefully, DAZ will fix this soon.
I know that this is a minor complaint but this has been sitting in my smart content tab for 3 years now. How about some consistency with the metadata?
ReneW, Ursula is fine as far as I know, there was just the pdf file script miscategorised and that was fixed on Friday. Thanks for your purchase
edit: well now I don't know what's happened because I rechecked and it has gone from categories (except for one file) to all presets in lost and found
edit2: even stranger, the support dsx file shows the categories yet DS is ignoring them and throwing everything in lost and found. Perhaps more of the lost and found issues are like this, QA do categorise them properly but DS CMS is ignoring the data!!!
edit3: see below for solution!!
Thanks all for the info so far. :) I am still in the midst of investigating the miscategorised mats and other presets issue (I kept it focused on that for now due to time constraints.) I've narrowed it down to 14 of my products packaged from June2020 to June2021. The repair for that many products would be time consuming so I am tempted to do it all myself then send the edited metadata files to QA... but I'm a bit stuck with deleting/removing old categories. Keep in mind I don't use Smart Content so I'm not entirely familiar....
I found this thread https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/395646/cannot-remove-item-from-default-category - if I understand correctly, that if the user has the preference "Show Hidden Vendor Categorizations" unchecked then the categories shipped by Daz will no longer show if the user has deleted or removed them? Well it doesn't seem to work for me... just as that user Lindsey says. I have a file in the wrong category, I edited its metadata and added it to the correct category and deleted the wrong category. Now it shows in the new correct category as well as the old wrong category. :/
Further info:
Where is it still getting the old category from???
I actually pm'd RichardH this question (hi Richard if you see this thread) but since I was replying here with the same question I copied it here too haha. :)
y3kman, eesh, I'm picky about consistent file naming and that would BUG me too. I sort of knew metadata was getting messier but I've denied its existence for so long, now I suppose I have to get involved lol. ;)
Having said that, I still appreciate all that Daz QA do, they are very hard working people with huge workloads, and have spotted many errors that would have had me out in public with my pants down. The QA staff are very picky too so when they make mistakes it's baffling to me. I wonder how this came about because they were categorising presets much better before this time period.
Brilliant customer service AprilYSH. A great example to others.
Just a thought, have you got access to a pre-June version of Daz to repeat the above test on?
It sounds a bit suspicious that you've done what you always do, yet this problem started at a specific time regardless.
Worth pondering things like an unintended "function" being introduced by a specific version update.
Thanks for the kind words ecks201 :) though it is the least I could do since can see the problem myself now even if I don't normally use Smart Content. Presets are showing under lost and found with no compatibility (filter by context for the hairs) even though the metadata dsx files in the support folder created by QA have them. Somehow DS or CMS is ignoring the categories assigned.
I don't have older versions of DS to backtest this, unfortunately.
I will have to ask Daz for tech support when they get back in the office. I'll keep on it. Thanks for standing by :)
OK!! A bit of breakthrough.
It's definitely a CMS issue. I was about to type up a support request and thought... "hmm, I haven't reset my database lately. lemme just do that..."
(Frank mentioned reimporting earlier but it hadn't occured to me to RESET too beforehand. *facepalm*)
Content DB Maintenance > Reset Database
waiting... waiting...
Content DB Maintenance > Re-Import Metadata...
waiting... waiting... waiting... waiting... waiting... still waiting... I'm so old... waiting... waiting...
et voilà
Categories! Nice, clean, shiny, categories. Yaaaaaay!!!
There are some files still in Lost and Found but for my products they tend to be those grey separator thumbnails that don't do anything but separate a series of files from each other in the Content Library. So I see QA left them orphaned in Smart Content. Poor wee thumbnails...
Now there will be some genuine missed files here and there, I already see Wilona Hair has missing G3 links, but it's not as widespread as I initially thought. It was a CMS issue for me and I hope that solution works for everyone else here too! If not, let me know! :)
Big fan of AprilYSH hairs, but I avoid polygon hairs, so have passed on this, and prefer diforce hair, so polygon hair with dforce always has a chance of getting purchased!
back OT
Can't say I have noticed metadata issues, although I avoid the so called Smart Content.
thanks nicstt, I've done some poly hairs with dForce (mehrloc, briggs, qiana, and neve) since I moved away from strand dForce, so you can expect more :)
cloth dForce is not always practical (big kaboom) if the poly hair has a relatively high polycount as is the case with Ursula, but I do keep dForce in mind and will add it as often as possible. Note I prefer to model my hairs fitted to the chest and shoulders and fully rigged, with cloth dForce as an option for final draping.
Well this has been a productive day
Thanks for the Content DB Reset Database/Reimport Metadata tip AprilYSH, that's massively reduced my Lost and Found list and while is didn't fix the problem I reported above with Outoftouch's 2021-11 Hair for Genesis 8 and 8.1 Females it prompted me to have a poke around and check a few things, and I found the cause of the problem.
https://www.daz3d.com/2021-11-hair-for-genesis-8-and-81-females
Is missing some metadata. The wearable file is missing the compatibility info for Genesis 8 and 8.1 female. I added those and now it works as it should.
I have to test the reset of the DB... *eyes the amount of products* buuuut.. I'll do it when I go to bed, and it's hopefully re-imported by tomorrow lol
aw shite... might have been a bad idea... *shudder* atleast from how it look at the moment. Reset the database, meant that every single product I had was uninstalled.. so I likely have to re-install every darn thing *cries*
Currently waiting for it to update the metadata for 3900 products, than I guess I'll start the re-installing (since I doubt the products will be installed once the metadata update is done). Probably should have realised that it would do this when using Smart Content only.
Resetting the database will not un-install the content just make Smart (not) Content forget it. Content installed with Connect (which no one should do) will not be reset by re-importing the meta data, you will need import again through Connect (it wont actually re-download since the files are still on your computer).
Well, from what it seemed every single product I had disapearred from the smart content tab, and I'm now in the process of reinstalling it *confused* not sure where to re-import from though?
And I do install my content via connect as I like that, despite that it do causes a lot of problem. But I have an easier time finding the stuff through there than in the product library
Oh my, what did I kick off here? Nevertheless, many THANKS to @AprilYSH and all the other PA's that are giving us great products.
BTW, if you allow DS to log on, you may get updated metadata. Sometimes, with fixes. Sometimes, it screws things up really well.
@jestmart I can say that you were wrong with not needing to re-install. I let the batch of products I had selected install (doing smaller batches at a time) and than reseted the database again, did the re-import metadata and all the products installed via Connect did Not get back when doing so. So it's a complete re-install of my products that is necessary. I sure as heck hope the Lost & Found problem will be mostly solved by this or I am so going to cry *sad smile*
Indeed lol - since I install everything with DIM I never need DS to be online, so I'd rather reduce the chance of screwiness and keep DS logged off.
Goodluck :) For future reference when the products disappeared from your smart content due to database reset it didn't uninstall them. It's like having a craft room, database reset removed all the labels from the boxes, but the boxes are still full, and re-import will just reapply the labels. Reinstalling is emptying the boxes and re-fill + re-label them. If you mix up reset with reinstall it could put the boxes in a mess so my guess you're right by that stage it's best to reinstall everything.
I agree with jetsmart, don't use Connect lol. I tried it when it was new and the actual file system is horrendous, definitely not content creator friendly. Also avoid Daz Central at all cost. lol!!
I do avoid Daz Central, but I genuinly find Connect/smart content easier to use than the product library. Despite all the problems that there is with it :)
The odd thing is, I did use reset database, than everything disapearred from the Smart Content tab. Using re-import metadata only gave me the items that had been installed manually or through DIM, not anything that had been installed with the Connect. So I'm not sure what went wrong there to be honest, I do however remember (belatedly) that when I had a problem with a product, the support person I talked to suggested resetting the database but did caution that it would mean having to install all the products again (really should have remembered that before I did that reset LOL)
I have submitted a new support ticket. I'll update when Daz replies.
For now, I will not let DS online so it can't overwrite the good metadata I get from DIM install.
I've just had to reset and re-import my db again since I accidentally ran the DS beta build which was logged in how I last left it.
Carola, if I'm right I don't think this is good news for you since you get metadata via Connect, not DIM. :( Hopefully that's not it and it's easily straightened out. :)
I was not wrong, I specifically said re-importing meta data would not fix Connect. You would have to go through the motions of re-installing with Connect but Connect would not actually have to re-download since all the files are still on the computer.