Which GPU, 3060 or 3060ti for rendering
ZoeAndFriends
Posts: 3
Hi all,
Anyone have any insight? The typical gaming bechmarks don't really apply I guess as I believe iRay gains more from GPU memory amount??
3060 has more VRAM but fewer CUDA cores that the TI variant so which would be the better card for faster renders?
Thanks in advance
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Speed doesn't matter if you run out of VRAM and during the past year the consumption of VRAM has risen considerably.
I bought an 8GB RTX 2070 Super in June 2020, no complaints about the rendering speed even today, but I wouldn't buy an 8GB card anymore, especially with the 12GB 3060 being available.
There is an Iray rendering benchmark here on the forums, and according to the results, the 12GB 3060 is still faster than the 'king of the hill' of the previous generation (2080ti)
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking/p1
Note; The amount of VRAM available for IRAY rendering will be somewhere around 3GB's less than the amount of VRAM on your GPU because of the base load caused by the OS, DS and the scene you have loaded.
Well for most renders 8 GB video RAM will be enough and it's much faster so I'd choose the 3060 TI. So would most people, that's why it's usually scalped about $50 - $75 cheaper, same with the MRSP prices.
Why to get a 3060? You really, really can't afford the extra $50 - $75 for the 3060 TI or it's the only RTX 3000 series GPU card available to you.
How do you know what most people would choose?
You can render IRAY even with a 4GB card, if you load the right items/figure into the scene, but the way VRAM consumption has been rising, 8GB card will not be enough for long even though they can do pretty good at the moment.
Depends also on what you are rendering, if it's still fotos it doesn't matter if the rendering takes 15 minutes or 14 minutes, but of course if it's animations with 2000+ frames, then the speed starts to make a difference.
Again, if you run out of VRAM, the card will be just as useful as a generic GPU that costs less than 50USD and the rendering droips to CPU, taking over 10 times longer than on GPU that had enough VRAM
Bye the way Best Buy has some in stock for order now, although still pricey, they are better deals then the scalpers offer, eg
EVGA NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 XC GAMING 12GB GDDR6 PCI Express 4.0 Graphics Card 12G-P5-3657-KB - Best Buy
...in agreement with PerttiA, when it comes to rendering, VRAM beats Cores as once the process drops to the CPU, you are stuck in the "molasses lane" (unless you have one of those 5,000$ 64 core Threadripper 30990Xs).
Go for more vRAM. The first time the faster card with less vRAM kicks your render down to the CPU it will use up more time than all the seconds you saved with the faster card.
What's really too bad is that they didn't give the higher vRAM to the TI version this time around.
Recently i had to make same decision, a slower 3060 or a faster card with less vram. Since i use my system mostly for rendering i decided to go for the 3060 12 GB. Best choice ever compared to my old 8GB card. (Almost) no more drop back to the CPU and it renders fast enough for me (compared to my previous card). It is also fast enough for the simple games etc i play and VR.
My advice, when you use the system mostly for rendering go for the 3060 with more VRAM.
I even run out of memory with 24gb vram so, always more vram! as long we dont have texture compression and windows just lets us use 81% of the vram, we just need tons of vram
Thanks all, I was leaning toward the 3060 based on previous sereaches on this forum and the over-riding statements of VRAM over speed.
3060 it is.
Yeah, for simple character and a very limited scene, sure; but anything over 1024x1024 resolution eats VRAM, 8 Gb is NOT enough for most people, they would be better off saving up for a 3090 and that sweet, sweet 24Gb VRAM, I did this very thing for 8 months and it was well worth it!
...how much system RAM do you have?
...9%? I thought that was fixed by MS in an update. That's about a 4.5 GB reduction. So apparently WDDM in W10 is still a major factor as well. Running W7 here with dual displays and just Chrome, WDDM only takes about 3% of my Titan-X's 12 GB (≅400 MB).
If you don't use the system for gaming you could always install a second lower VRAM card just to run the display(s) and dedicate the 3090 just to rendering...
I second the RTX3060 over the RTX3060Ti..Eventually, you will need those extra VRAM to move on to more sophisticated scenes. For rendering only, the RTX 3060 us enough, but if you want to game, the Ti is the better choice
A 3080ti is the best choice if you want to do both as the 3060 was a crappy release as it is crap for gaming, in spite of it being a 12Gb card, as it can only handle comfortably running the game at 1080-1440p and not fully take advantage of 4k gaming where that 12Gb would truly shine!
I still say bypass that crap-tier card and save up your money for a 3080 ti at least, that is if the 3090 is too much as it IS at, or around $1.6k USD after taxes...
EDIT: In most of the benchmarks the 1080ti nearly, or beat out the 3060 in rasterized gaming which is an abysmal performance a 10 series card beating out a 30 series is pitiful not to mention the 2080's superior performance over the 3060...
EDIT2: Rasterization means non-RTX rendering, which is why the 3060 is crap for an RTX card...
EDIT3: Ultimately what I'm saying is, that if you're gonna spend money on a card that is superior for rendering, do not settle for less, when you can save up your money for a much, much better option, I'm on a fixed budget with less than $1k per month, and yes I saved $200 out of my check for 8 months for the 3090 but now I can safely render any scene that I want, plus gaming at 4k is a non-issue for me!
I'm not saying you should get a 3090, but a 3080 ti is a much better investment than a 3060 which will reach and surpass its usefulness early, and the money you spend on one could have been much better served by getting a 3080ti at least, if not a 3090 as it's all about longevity and the 3060 will never be as useful as a 3080ti/3090 3-4 years down the line!
Google: "3090 prices and availability should be getting better."
I picked up a 3060 before I got hold of a 3090 founders.
The 3060 was great for Daz. I only benchmarked it in daz on 'ethereum' settings (120Watts, +1000 memory) but got about 10% faster results than the ofther 3060s, presumably on stock settings, posted in the forum benchmark thread mentioned above. So its no slouch in Daz. Nearly twice the speed of my old 1080ti. +1000 memory is a 'free' overcklock on the 3060. It should come close to a stock 2080 for Daz.
I wouldn't give a thank-you for a 3060ti in Daz. Not enough memory for me.
The OP asked opinion between the RTX3060 and RTX3060Ti.
Although 3080s and 3090s perform better over the pair of 3060s, Their TDP exceed 300W which, underload those cards can get pretty toasty.
If you move to those higher TDP cards, you may need to 1, upgrade your PSU, 2, get a good airflow case, 3. even liquid cool your GPU., Those GPUs are already expensive as they are (market price $1500 to $2500). Then you have to add those additional upgrades (upward of $1000)
The 3060's TDP are both comparatively low, so you don't have to blow your budget to keep the cards cool.
If you have the money, by alj means go with the higher tear cards.
True enough...
They did ask for either a 3060 and 3060 ti, but in one, maybe two years' time it will be obsolete whereas the 3080 ti/3090 will last a helluva lot longer, I simply want the OP to enjoy rendering/gaming/multitasking as I have!
My total upgrade path cost me $2020, that's $1600 for the 3090, but it would be a lot less than that if they get the 3080 ti; $300 for a titanium tiered 1kWatt PSU, and $120 for a full tower...
Now that has taken me a year of saving on an income of less than $1k per month, but to be fair I don't own a car, nor do I have children, and if that's a part of their expenses, then I suppose going the cheap option with a 3060, as for solely using your rig for rendering it will be a much better choice than the 3060ti, I just want everyone here to enjoy the freedom that you can have with 24Gb VRAM as well as the power to do some serious multitasking!
As you can be spending 8-10k rendering a scene while at the same time surfing the internet, encoding videos, and even having another 3D program running, and you cannot do the same with a 12 Gb GPU, so that means that your PC will be trapped doing only one task; rendering...
TL:DR: If you're able I would save up for a 3090/PSU/Full tower, but if you can't, then go for a 3060 as you'll mostly be using it for rendering anyway... Good luck I hope you can get one that you want and supplies should be equaling out in a few months.
...from how I read the OP's comment at the top of the thread he/she seems to be more interested in Iray and Daz rendering performance so given that, more VRAM is the better solution. This person may also be on a budget so a 3080 Ti could be out of the question as they are currently selling for between 1,800$ and 2,000$.
For myself a 3060 would be a bit of a performance boost over my old Maxwell Titan-X (which from what I gather isn't long for Iray support) as it has the same amount of VRAM, faster processor, faster memory, and Tensor/RTX cores. If were to look any further (and have been considering so) I would move up to an A4000 with 16 GB and 6,144 cores that is currently selling for about 600$ - 800$ less than the 3080 Ti.(the markup on the professional "A" series has not been anywhere near as severe as on the 30xx and even 20xx cards). The other benefits include the ability to switch Tesla Compute Mode, it's a single width card, and has a TDP of 140w (which is 20w lower than that of my old 1 GB GTX 460). Granted it's not intended for gaming but given the grossly inflated prices for consumer RTX cards (which shows few if any signs of abating) and the fact my only interest is supporting Iray rendering, ti is beginning to make more sense.
Yeah, I see them averaging out to $1.3k for 16Gb, 4 more VRAM than the 3080ti, That is a better card for rendering as I easily ran up to 10Gb VRAM while rendering/working in a scene, so if I was using a 12Gb GPU that would mean that I cannot do anything other than maybe surfing online while watching out for tab numbers while my PC is stuck rendering; even with a 3090 it will still take me an hour or so to render a halfway decent looking 100 frame animation!
Also, you need to have your characters at least at a level 2 subdivision setting otherwise you'll get jaggy shadows due to the low poly count, and THAT eats up VRAM as well, so yeah, if I had to choose between the 3080ti and an A4k, I'd go with the latter as that would at least give me 6Gb of headroom while rendering an advanced scene...
I ended up buying Gigapixel AI and shrinking images with all options off by .5 so a 4096x4096 texture becomes an equal quality 2048x2048 etc. Since I do not render over 1080 and also have a 2070 super I did a side by side comparison at 1080p and 1440p with original and resized textures and do not even notice a difference. Same with rendering figures at subD 2 vs subD 4. "Well what about HD?" I do that with normal maps. With normal maps I am finding just as much detail without the bloated mesh sizes/memory use that subD 4 and subD 5 use.
Example:
New Kayden HD character
Render SubD 1 (6 MB geometry data)
Render SubD 2 (16 MB geometry data)
Render SubD 5 (890 MB geometry data)
I have rendered him at 1080p at subD2 and at subD 4 and 5 at a normal 1080p which is still the most used screen size according to steam stats, I am not seeing a difference. Scars? I don't use scars much but if I need some I have normal maps I can use from several other figures plus some custom ones I kitbashed together and they still use less memory than jumping to subD 4 or subD 5. In most cases high Render SubD levels do not make sense, it only wastes lots of resources.
I also have custom cameras I have made with 4 section plane nodes attached with clip lights on which also helps by clipping out unused geometry and textures not in the camera view but keeps the lighting as designed for the scene.
As for 4k gaming ... Good lord, do you really even need that? 1440p is great for gaming. I suppose if you have a 4k tv and you hook your pc up to it for gaming well, yeah, but most people using pcs for gaming still use desktops and with the most used, again according to steam, of 1080p, going for 4k is a bit overkill.
Thought I'd bump this instead of make a new thread. I'm currently in the same position with deciding which two to get. I see plenty saying the 12gb version is better, but I was wondering if anyone could give me actual specifics. I looked through the link above at the differnces when rendering things but I didnt fully understand it since I'm still new to the program. Can someone give me information on how long it roughly takes to render an image using either of these two cards, lets say difference between 1080p and 1440p speeds. I also saw mention of 2000+ frames would suddenly overflow the 8gb card and head to the cpu. How long is a video clip thats 2000frames? Thanks for the help.
There're so many different 3060 ... with 2 and 3 fans...
Galax , Eagle, Ventus, Gaming, ASUS, Zotak, Trinity
What's the difference?
for daz... it's cudas and vram .. first chart shows the comparisons between the different cards. (except for the prices)
the second is for my titan X. old but 12g and 3000 cuda.
ignoring speed gains the 3060 breaks me even. To upgrade cores and keep vram have to start at the 3080 12g and to beat them both have to hit 3090s.
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however I do have a tesla card -- that I had to get quickly and goofed because they would only work with quadros... because they require studio driver which at least last time I checked wasn't available for titanx
but is for the 30xx series ... so will investicate using one of those with the tesla.
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as for power .... thee miners solved that a long time ago... the $10 harness lets you start two power supplies at the same time. (there are also powers supplies about 300w which would handle a gpu that fit into a dvd bay and use a hard drive connector to activate them when the machine starts ...but pricy but used who knows... I got mine at a flea market for about twenty
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where I live in Eugene Oregon.. we have a non profit computer recycling place ... and nobody really wants old server cases... they averaged around $20 a pop when I got mine.
update to my previous post.. the 30xx series all work with studio drivers ... so does the tesla k-80 .. 24g ddr5 4900 cudas. note it may be two 12 banks so for daz use it may only be 12g of model but like having two 12 g card.
If you have a machine that will handle two full size cards (because the K-80 has no video out) the K-80s are running about $200 on ebay and for what's it's worth but 10xx and 20xx also have the studio driver.
Kepler generation cards (the K-xx Teslas) are no longer supported for IRAY rendering in DS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA
The oldest "Compute Capability version" still supported is 5.0, named "small" Maxwell - it's deemed "deprecated", meaning the support can end anytime in the near future.
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log_4_14_0_10#4_12_2_31
is there a list of what gpus the different flavors of daz use.
For the time being if I have to render in 4.12 to double my cuda count and triple my vram.. I can do that.
Thanks for the info on the 3060...I was set on a 3050ti but I've raised my sights to the 3060 thanks to what I read here. I do no gaming at all and the extra $150 I'll spend for the extra 4gb VRam will be well worth it.
@zoeandfriend
It really depends on what you're rendering.
First, the more stuffs your scene has, the more vram you'll need.
It doesn't matter if 3060 ti can do faster rendering,
If the scene doesn't fit to vram since the first place, it won't render.
You'll get black result.
And often on the viewport if you use iray, it will say "preparing scene" FOREVER and doesnt spit the result.
I myself use 3060 12GB.
Last time I used 2060 6GB. Many times I can't render. Especially if there's environment in my scene, like a room with stuffs.
Also many times I have to restart DAZ3d to empty the VRAM.
Daz or Iray seems having difficulty in emptying the vram.
so 8 GB... kinda close. I rather pick 3060 12 GB for standing on the safe side.
Due to the base load of W10, DS, the scene and the needed "Working space", the actual amount of VRAM available for textures and geometry is about 3GB's less than the amount of VRAM installed on an RTX card, cards without RTX loose an additional gigabyte of VRAM to the software emulation of RTX features.
Effectively, a 12GB RTX card has almost twice the amount of VRAM for textures and geometry than a 8GB RTX card and that makes a big difference.
I did update the 30xx chart with average prices US/