Weird Skin Issues in Render
Stryder87
Posts: 899
Hi All
I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on a weird issue I'm running into when I do a render on a current scene (see attached pic).
If I load her in a new scene, she renders just fine. I haven't done any adjustments to her shaders or anything, just inserted, clothed, posed etc. The other figure in the scene renders just fine. About the only thing I have changed from standard settings is the Max Ray Trace Depth from default to 8 to make the bottles from 'Wine Me' render properly. I managed to save her pose (which took me about an hour of individual finger segment adjustments to hold the ferret :P) so I suppose I could delete her out of the scene and put her back in and see if it's just a corrupt scene setting, but I don't think that's how it works.
Suggestions? I've put in a lot of work so far into this scene and don't want to have it ruined by something that's probably a simple thing that I'm just not thinking of. :ohh:
Appreciate the help!
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Comments
Is that the final size you will render at. If not try a spot render to a new window and see if the problem is still there.
The effect you are seeing is caused by the SSS settings - the shading scale.
If that's not a glitch, someone should figure out how to create it on purpose... That looks like a nicely reptilian-like surfacing texture for anyone needing one.
No it's not the final size. I have done a few full renders to test. I just did a spot render to have a small sample to take a screenshot of it to show what's going on.
I'll take a look at the SSS settings and see what they are... if I can figure out where they are. I've never looked at them before.
Thanks for the tip.
No it's not the final size. I have done a few full renders to test. I just did a spot render to have a small sample to take a screenshot of it to show what's going on.
I'll take a look at the SSS settings and see what they are... if I can figure out where they are. I've never looked at them before.
Thanks for the tip.
Well, first you need to check that the issue shows in your larger render - by doing a spot render to a new window, for example (go to Tool Settings with the Spot render tool active to change that). If you do need to change the settings then they are in the Surfaces pane - one thing you need to make sure of is that you edit all surfaces using the same GroupID, the easiest way to do this is to right-click on an area of skin with the Surface Selection tool, Select Surfaces with Value..., and select GroupID in the dialogue.
Well, first you need to check that the issue shows in your larger render - by doing a spot render to a new window, for example (go to Tool Settings with the Spot render tool active to change that). If you do need to change the settings then they are in the Surfaces pane - one thing you need to make sure of is that you edit all surfaces using the same GroupID, the easiest way to do this is to right-click on an area of skin with the Surface Selection tool, Select Surfaces with Value..., and select GroupID in the dialogue.
I did a full render and it is just the one figure having the problem. She's based on the Mei Lin 6 character. I suspect she is the HD version, where as the other character isn't, since the other character doesn't have this problem (and I don't think I had purchased the HD version when I built the first character). There are some preset SubSurface options for Mei Lin 6, and I'm thinking of trying a different preset, maybe SSS 75, to see if it makes a difference. I figured out how to do the surface selection like you said, but there are a LOT of settings in there and I don't a clue where to start! %-P
What I couldn't figure out was how to get the Spot Render to open in a new window, like you mentioned. I can't find that setting anywhere, and the manual doesn't even mention it as an option.
Fun Fun!
I've noticed the same thing - it's barely noticable on a closeup (mostly on forehead), but the farther away you move the characters on the scene, the worse it gets.
And yes, it seems to be SSS related, but changing the shading rate doesn't seem to make much difference.
Here's G2F (no SSS - not affected it seems) plus Aiko6 and Belle (both SSS). DS 4.7, default lights. (click to view full size)
--
I have suffered almost exactly the same issue, ie reptile looking skin, and the solution turned out to be wanted Richard mentioned above about the group ids. I clicked on the surfaces tab, and reset all of the surfaces of the skin to another group id. After this the skin effect went away.
Yes, it's usually due to Group ID issues, and/or shading rate, and it seems to specifically affect surfaces using the Age of Armour Subsurface Shader. And while changing the shading rate in Render Settings may help, usually the larger culprit is the shading rate of the skin itself...you can adjust that in the Surfaces pane. Default shading rate for many characters' skin is 6.00 to 8.00...I usually drop this to 2.00 or even 1.00 depending on the scene.
If you want to create this effect intentionally, do the opposite: change the skin shading rate to a larger number. :)
Each character should have a different GroupID, and if different parts of a character have different GroupIDs they should stay different. If changing a GroupID fixes the issue that means you had a conflict - different SSS settings on two surfaces with the same ID (usually from having two characters loaded with the same value)..
I now remember which skin I had these same wierd issues on, and it was Brothers by Zev0. I have attached the render where you see the effect. This was the SSS shader, and it was an Age of Armour one. Clicking on the skin in the surfaces tab I see it has a group id of 31. I know it is not clashing with any other item as he is the only figure in the scene (other than the shorts, and the effect happens without these, but natually I could not post that). My guess is that 31 is clashing with some system id, or plug in I have installed. I assume most people can use the same skin without issues.
I then changed the group id of the skin to 612, and this improved the skin alot, but was still not great. I then did as Richard and Scott suggested, and reduced the shading rate of the skin from 8 to 4, and now G2M is looking human again. The before and after results I have shown below.
GroupID is just an identifier, it tells the renderer to treat all the surfaces with that value as a single item. The actual value has no functional significance.
It really begs the question why every figure (except from certain PAs) comes with the same damn group ID.
And also why the Shading Rate is set to such a high number.
It's like they are trying to create issues for new users.
Was doing some experiments, tonight and rendered a comparison with Girl 6, Fiends Forever and Callie 6. Noticed it was repeatedly happening with Girl 6 in the same scene. All of the figures were using the default skins they automatically load with. Didn't mess around with the SSS stuff.
Hmm...
No, it's more like a starting point.
My understand of the Shading Rate / Shading Scale is that it's values change in relation to your render size and figure/camera distance.
It was covered in the AoA lights manual about how they should be adjusted according to those situations.
Greetings,
See, this is why we need a 'sanity check' script. It goes through and gives you onscreen warnings about materials with the same group id, but different shading rates, and automatically figures out 'from my current camera, what's a good shading rate for each of the visible materials that have a shading rate?'No solid ideas on how to write it, but it sure sounds good right about now, doesn't it? :)
-- Morgan
No solid ideas on how to write it, but it sure sounds good right about now, doesn't it? :)
-- Morgan
Oooh, a script to check out all those things and recommend the best optimal settings would be so awesome!
Ya me too, not sure how to write it either lol.
But then again, it would take away from the fun of playing with the values to get your own unique look.
Time consuming yes, frustrating yes, but part of the whole making art craft :)
Warning of shared GroupIDs on different figures or props should be fairly simple, I'm less sure about the camera-appropriate settings.
Something like the DupID warnings that were common earlier in the 4.x cycle. But with an option, to change the SSS Group ID as it's being loaded would be really nice.