For my next video card.....
commo81
Posts: 19
So I am at a stand still with choosing my next video card and would like some input. I was considering getting an MSI RTX 3070 model GPU which has 8GB of memory and 5,888 CUDA cores, BUT......The RTX 3060 series have 12GB of memory but only have 3584 Cuda Cores. I currently run a GTX 1070 that has 8GB memory and 1920 Cuda cores and some renders can take up to 30 minutes. I'd like to get an opinion from the community whether I should go with the RTX 3060 series for the memory, or get the rtx 3070 series for the higher cuda cores? I see people on youtube render and hit 3900 iterations in about 10 seconds. My system is older and needs an upgrade anyways, but I thought I would ask specifically regarding the graphics card which should I go for? Should I get the rtx 3070 or the 3060?
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Go for more VRAM
How much system RAM do you have? Scenes do need to be prepared to be sent to the GPU, so that can be a limiting factor with high RAM GPUs (if you are speccing a whole new system, aim for twice as much system RAM as GPU RAM).
Also, how much content do your scenes tend to have?
Go for the more Cuda core and by the way I got an email from BestBuy.com today for a desktop computer on special that has an RTX 3070 GPU already and it sells for between $1700 - $1800. If you live in a country with BestBuy stores sign up for an account and sign up for their promotional emails and then buy quick when it's something like a desktop with an RTX 3000s series card you want. With laptops & RTX 3000s series GPUs you can take your time buying.
To put things into perspective, the benchmark thread...
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking/p1
Page 23 has some 3060 cards.
If you run out of VRAM, your Nvidia GPU will be just as useful as a generic, less than $50 USD card.
If you can wait until March the cost of cards may stabilize, the electronics supply chain is insane right now. otherwise hover over the refresh button or be prepared to pay an insane markup. My card from 2019 is nearly double the price and it's not even an RTX.
Or come live on the eastern side of the Atlantic, the cheapest 3060's with 12GB VRAM can be had as cheap as 500-630eur and that includes 24% VAT (Finland). These are not second hand cards either...
...even the Maxwell series Titan X has gone up in price (pretty much all are used or "refurbished"). A couple years ago you could one for abut 350 - 600 USD but today they I am seeing them close to the original release price of 999 USD and even more (a couple I looked at today are going for over 1,200 USD). This is for a card that is 4 generations old and probably isn't long for support regarding Iray.
I've been looking for a 3060 as well as it pretty much matches the specs of the Titan-X .(which I currently have) but with RT/Tensor cores faster memory and processor. According to TechPowerUp, performance of the 12 GB 3060 is a 52% improvement over the Titan-X. As I don't game, the lower number of CUDA cores compared to the Ti version is not as much a factor, and I will not "backstep" in VRAM after working with 12 GB..
I have 24 GB and a scene I just rendered last night with an HDRI using a single character along with Protozoon's Recital Hall and Grand Piano took 34 minutes. It would have likely taken a couple hours on the CPU. I would imagine with the 3060, it would have taken around 15 min at most. (and I have 24 GB of system memory which easily covered the scene while rendering).
my 6GB 1660ti is usable for checking surfaces and actually renders some previews to a very good clarity. The CPU render time (i9 18500k 10 core) is not terrible at full 1080p (1920x1200), between 30 min to a few hours, nowehre as terrible as Lux. You can get a really good CPU between $300 and $500 US, DDR4 RAM is not terribly expensive either in comparison to GPU DDR6 which is crazy. A good CPU is a great investment even with a serious GPU later when prices (hopefully) stabilize.
+1
It seems like there are always things you can do to make the render faster without sacrificing visual quality, but if the scene doesn't fit in VRAM, you are out of luck, and there are only so many things you can do to reduce VRAM usage before it really becomes noticeable.
...and some of those options can affect the quality..
More cuda cores the better with Iray, but thats if you can even snag one of those graphic cards . . . they are harder to catch than Santa.
So... You are saying, rendering a smaller scene in 14 minutes instead of 15 minutes is more important than having a bigger scene rendered on GPU instead of CPU (which takes 10-20 times longer)...
Don't understand the logic, especially with VRAM requirements going up with the newer products all the time.
Of course. I was just noting that it seems that there are more ways to make a scene faster than it is to make it smaller, before starting to affect visual quality. Newer GPUs are obviously getting faster, but they're not getting bigger by anywhere near the same slope.
While what you say is obviously true, it's not a universal truth. Those CUDA cores are only useful if your scene fits.
Ahh good point, so in that case more vram would be better. I forgot how much vram scenes and characters use.
It does depend on the scene being rendered - if they would usually fit in an 8GB card then it may be better to get a faster card, even if it has only 8GB, but if they will often need more than 8GB (but less than the alternative card has) then a sacrifice of some potential speed may be best
Out of curiosity, what was the resolution size for your render?
...1,200 x 1,200
If your scene exceeds the vRAM it will be rendered by the CPU and it won't matter how fast your video card is.
With your current 30 minute renders do you know if they are being carried by the GPU or the CPU?
If you want to render smallish scenes very quickly then the 3070 will be faster.
If you like big scenes with plenty of figures then go for the 12GB 3060.
I recently bought a 12GB 3060 and think that it is great.
I just saw this after I started a new thread with this exact question. I too am trying to decide between the 3060 and 3070 for a new computer. Most of my scenes will contain a maximum of 4 G3 and/or G8 characters. I do not use the G8.1 figures as most of my resources (morphs, clothing, hair, etc) are invested in G3 and G8. Will the 3070's 8GB RAM fit 4 G3 or 4 G8 characters with a sprinkling of scene props?
Depends of course on what are you rendering and how much new stuff you use in your scenes, but the way VRAM usage has been rising over the past year, I wouldn't go with 8GB's anymore.
I bought an RTX 2070 Super 8GB just before the RTX 30xx line was released, and while a year ago 8GB's was 'plenty', it isn't anymore and this time next year I expect an 8GB card to be as restrictive as a 6GB card is today.
As far as rendering speed is concerned, the 2070 Super renders my scenes usually in less than 15 minutes, single G8 characters with clothing and hair in 2-4 minutes... Couldn't care less about speed increase, but have been thinking of getting the 12GB 3060 just to get more VRAM.
On the benchmark thread the 3060 results are hidden within the messages, somewhere after pg20 (pg23?).
Depends on the props, architecture, clothing. hair, etc. that you have loaded into your scene. This summer we have already seen a pair of boots, a puppy and a city scene with VRAM and RAM usage beyond reasonable, unless of course one has min. 64GB's RAM and min. 16GB's of VRAM...
So if I am to understand correctly, the general consensus seems to be that though the 3070 has a greater number of cuda cores, they won't be much use if your scene runs out of VRAM. So I should opt for the 3060 12GB?
Point taken about the props, hair and architecture in the scene. I generally create my own textures now for clothes or use shader presets. But like you say, I have encountered scene presets that consume an extraordinary amount of computer resources. Eventually I hope to be sufficiently proficient in Blender to create my own architecture and clothes, but I still have a lot to learn about that. I think I ought to consider power consumption and my energy footprint too, so the 3060 may be better for that as well.
My computer was going to have 32GB RAM installed, but I am now going to request that is upgraded to 64GB. My current system has 16GB.
...optimally want about three times whatever the VRAM of your GPU card is to support using it's maximum VRAM which for a 3060 would be 36 GB . Four (48 GB) would be better. The situation is the way memory breaks down these days as motherboards have 2, 4, or 8 DIMM slots, the breaks are 16, 32, 68 or if your wallet and the MB can handle it, 128 GB. If you go for anything in between, like six 8 GB or three 16 GB sticks for 48 GB, the available memory channels default to 1 which is the least efficient..
Bear in mind that both the 3070TI and the 3080TI also come with 12GB of VRAM, though due to the current scarcity are only available via prebuilts.
The 3070TI doesn't
Oops, sorry. Yes, you're correct -- I should have just said the 3080TI. One thing about the 3080TI systems, they're far more expensive than 3060XT prebuilts. Since they both offer 12GB VRAM, I assume the distinction is that the 3080TI runs faster -- not sure if that really makes a whale of a difference where Iray rendering is concerned, though.
I'm looking to get a new system for myself at some point. If the 3080TI doesn't provide that much more bang for the buck, then I'd be better off going in for a lower 3060XT system and saving myself the additional $1000.
As I see it, those market speculations only get the side effect of me not buying anything. They will sell to large studios who can't stay without the latest cards in their render farms. As for gaming and graphics home users the old cards do just fine.
I mean it's us who decide the market, not them. Just stop buying and the prices will fall. Or they will die speculating.
Well, I have ordered my new system now. It's going to be custom built and then sent to me via courrier.
I see the 3080 TI has popped up in the conversation. I did look at that one, but I almost fainted at the price difference. The 3080TI has about 10k cuda cores, compared to the 3500-ish cuda cores of the 3060. So the 3080TI would simulate DForce faster. The 3080TI power consumption is also much greater. At least, that's what I gathered while researching.
The 12GB 3060 is perfectly fine for my requirements. It's far, far better than the 10 series GPU I have in my current system.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions. :)
I see from checking the Best Buy web sight listing at 9 AM & 9 PM daily for the past money that they have quite frequent "open box" returns of RTX 3000 series GPUs but have never actually seen such cards listed as "new" on that same web site. Maybe Best Buy is simply telling little white lies as it certainly makes a difference in the scalped value asking price. They typically stay listed from 1/2 day to 3 days at those discounted open box prices.
They've also had for about 3 weeks a PNY RTX 3060 12GB listed for $619.99, which is an excessive price, but here it is 3 weeks later at prices $60 - $120 cheaper than the typical eBay prices for such speced cards from other OEMs and Best Best still has not sold out of them.
Best Buy did have an In-Store only event on the 1st of October where you had to show up early before opening to get a ticket to purchase an RTX 3000 series card.
Demand is certainly slowing, prices certainly dropping, and those that have been willing and able to pay scalper prices have done so. It was the same with tulips, beanie babies, Tickle Me Elmos, and lots of other consumer products in past days.