Geoshell vs L.I.E. makeup: what's the good, the bad and the ugly?

CHWT

I think they pretty much function the same... (or maybe I am ignorant) Seems that both can stack. I guess geoshell is better at retaining the color without being affected by SSS, and handles metallic highlights better? So what's the good about geoshell makeup? I can see it's becoming a trend.

Hylas

I personally like Diffuse Overlay makup best, it's so quick and easy to handle. But I understand that it has its drawbacks, too.

What I like best about Geoshell makeup is that it ignores non-standard UVs. I still use the skins of many G3 core ladies and it's nice to have some more options for them.

Geoshell
+ can deal with non-standard UVs
+ can stack
- dealing with too many geoshells can be cumbersome
- can lead to excessive scene size if you end up stacking too many hi-res textures

LIE
+ easy to apply
+ can stack
- can lead to excessive scene size if you're sloppy
- can be cumbersome to remove or adjust
- can be slow
- can't deal with non-standard UVs

Diffuse Overlay Channel
+ very quick and easy to apply/remove/adjust
+ small file size
- doesn't stack
- can't deal with non-standard UVs

WendyLuvsCatz

if exporting to another software, LIE is best, you need to grab the temp files, put them in another safe folder and rename and reload them though or they will disappear after closing, I have been caught of a few times with FBX and obj exports 

MelissaGT

I prefer Geoshell makeup, as it ignores the UV's underneath (meaning you can use it on other characters, i.e putting a female geoshell on a male character). Also, because geoshells have no effect on the textures beneath, they can have their own bump, normals, and even displacement. Perfect for things like warpaints, or thicker makeup that looks flat otherwise. 

Hylas

LOL, 3 replies 3 opinions.

WendyLuvsCatz

well mine was not so much an opinion than a workflow 

Geoshells work better for me in Studio itself 

decals? not sure what it actually is but an option used a lot that annoys me as it doesn't always render in Filament or openGL

margrave

Iray decals are part of the Iray rendering engine, not Daz Studio. If they were going to make Filament support them, it'd have to be through some hackery by the Daz developers.

marble

I avoid geometry shells because I generally have at least one geograft which comes with its own geoshell so stacking is my issue. This can result in one of the shells appearing milky white and, although there are threads here discussing that, I have yet to find a way to avoid/fix the problem. The geograft products I have bought (Meipe anatomical elements) do come with a script to fix the white shell on those products but then I might want to use make-up or wet-skin or one of those second-skin overlays. All too tricky and I'm therefore discouraged from using them.

TBorNot

Geoshells are pretty buggy if you try and add an attachment to your figure.  You can sometimes get a white section, or all of it white.  Even worse, it can get all fudged up and you don't notice it until after you post your image.  Remember to change the collision object for clothes to the geoshell, it helps poke-thru.  When it works, however, it looks pretty good.  Just be careful.

Hylas

Geoshells work for me - with geografts and all - as long as

- I pay attention to their offset - they should each have a slightly different offset

- I make sure all the correct surfaces have zero opacity

- I switch off all parts related to the eye in the parameter tab - too many stacked geoshells can make the eyes buggy, even if the surfaces have zero opacity

... but getting all that right takes a bit of work, which is what I mean by "cumbersome"

marble

Hylas said:

 

... but getting all that right takes a bit of work, which is what I mean by "cumbersome"

 

And what I meant by "all too tricky". :) 

MelissaGT

marble said:

I avoid geometry shells because I generally have at least one geograft which comes with its own geoshell so stacking is my issue. This can result in one of the shells appearing milky white and, although there are threads here discussing that, I have yet to find a way to avoid/fix the problem. The geograft products I have bought (Meipe anatomical elements) do come with a script to fix the white shell on those products but then I might want to use make-up or wet-skin or one of those second-skin overlays. All too tricky and I'm therefore discouraged from using them.

You can fix the white parts by turning off the geoshell for the corresponding surfaces.  

PixelSploiting

 Geoshells because they're the most flexible options and I'm not afraid to tweak everything.

They're perfect for blood, cuts, slashes, dirt, anything thicker than a tattoo.

Also for building machines because all the fine surface detail geometry can be done by stacking multiple geoshells with different bump and normal maps:

 

CHWT

PixelSploiting said:

 Geoshells because they're the most flexible options and I'm not afraid to tweak everything.

They're perfect for blood, cust, slashes, dirt, anything thicker than a tattoo.

Also for building machines because all the fine surface detail geometry can be done by stacking multiple geoshells with different bump and normal maps:

 

Wow I have never thought about this! I must say it's mind-blowing.

PixelSploiting

CHWT said:

PixelSploiting said:

 Geoshells because they're the most flexible options and I'm not afraid to tweak everything.

They're perfect for blood, cust, slashes, dirt, anything thicker than a tattoo.

Also for building machines because all the fine surface detail geometry can be done by stacking multiple geoshells with different bump and normal maps:

 

Wow I have never thought about this! I must say it's mind-blowing.

This is actual geometry for the model:

Everything else is a stacked geoshell.

 

I'm also using geoshells to produce seams in robotic bodies. Normally it'd require displacement maps with very heavy displacement subdivision set to avoid jagged edges.

Instead I'm putting transparency channels in the character skins and robotic details in the seam are on a geoshell moved inside the character body with a negative shell offset.

 

PixelSploiting

[forum lag doublepost]

marble

MelissaGT said:

marble said:

I avoid geometry shells because I generally have at least one geograft which comes with its own geoshell so stacking is my issue. This can result in one of the shells appearing milky white and, although there are threads here discussing that, I have yet to find a way to avoid/fix the problem. The geograft products I have bought (Meipe anatomical elements) do come with a script to fix the white shell on those products but then I might want to use make-up or wet-skin or one of those second-skin overlays. All too tricky and I'm therefore discouraged from using them.

You can fix the white parts by turning off the geoshell for the corresponding surfaces.  

 

That's what I've read elsewhere but what if the overlapping shells are necessary for different features but occupy the same surfaces (e.g. torso)? 

nemesis10

"That's what I've read elsewhere but what if the overlapping shells are necessary for different features but occupy the same surfaces (e.g. torso)"
 

The reason that the surface is white is that it is empty; If you examine the white overlapping surface in the Surface Tab, you will find that it has 3dl shading, is white, with no opacity.  If you want something else, you can convert the surface to an iray texture by applying the default iray shader to the surface, add texture, opacity, bump, normals, other uvs etc.... to the white area.  People basical switch off the visibilty of the surface rather than alter the opacity in Surfaces.

WendyLuvsCatz

I wonder if geoshells could be used to create parallax shaders

charles

marble said:

MelissaGT said:

marble said:

I avoid geometry shells because I generally have at least one geograft which comes with its own geoshell so stacking is my issue. This can result in one of the shells appearing milky white and, although there are threads here discussing that, I have yet to find a way to avoid/fix the problem. The geograft products I have bought (Meipe anatomical elements) do come with a script to fix the white shell on those products but then I might want to use make-up or wet-skin or one of those second-skin overlays. All too tricky and I'm therefore discouraged from using them.

You can fix the white parts by turning off the geoshell for the corresponding surfaces.  

 

That's what I've read elsewhere but what if the overlapping shells are necessary for different features but occupy the same surfaces (e.g. torso)? 

That's how they SAY you fix it, but it's a bad sollution when you often switch to certain Daz tools such a mesh grabber, geometry editor or what not, this will often revert your selections. IMO XP  the easiest sollution is to turn those sections into Uber shader (if not done already) and set opacity to 0.

 

marble

charles said:

 

That's how they SAY you fix it, but it's a bad sollution when you often switch to certain Daz tools such a mesh grabber, geometry editor or what not, this will often revert your selections. IMO XP  the easiest sollution is to turn those sections into Uber shader (if not done already) and set opacity to 0.

 

OK - I had to load a figure plus the various grafts and shells to see what you mean but now I see what you (and others) are saying. I selected one of the Geometry Shells, went to the Surfaces panel and looked down the list of surfaces for the other shells, converted them to IRay Uber and set the opacity to zero (it was 50%).